Cut-scenes?

[LeapingShark]

I too use cut-scenes, and my players love them. And yep, the idea came from the old WEG Star Wars hardcover, which does a great job of explaining how to do them properly.

As long as you keep the scenes short, the meta-gaming repercussions are usually harmless. It's all in good fun, which is what gaming is all about.

My favorite thing to do is to show the BBEBG reacting to the heroes efforts, then hinting at terrifying/mysterious new plans being set into motion against them. This serves to reward the group by giving them some satisfaction in seeing the BBEBG frustrated over their recent successes, then it make the players fear the future.

The best example of cut-scenes I can think of, is from the Jagged Alliance 2 computer game, so lately I've been modeling alot of stuff from the antics of Deidranna and her assistant Elliot.

 

[enworldatemylogin]

Yep, West End Games Star Wars had cut scenes and I'd use them when designing my own adventures. One of the players took the idea for his Champions game, which really worked well also.

But for some reason, probably cause I stopped playing Star Wars, (I think White Wolf's Vampire stuff was coming out then) and so I haven't used a cut scene in years, though we have at times described events in a cinematic sense.

 

[Belegbeth]

Cut-scenes are description of events that the PCs are not aware of, but the players are. .

I simply do not understand this distinction. How could players know about an event in the world that their characters do not? This makes no sense to me...

But hey, I am merely a CAVE-MAN DnD Dungeon Master, frightened by your strange flying carpets and bolts of lightening....

Seriously, this idea makes no sense to me. (I first played DnD in 1979, but stopped from 1990-2000 -- did this strange idea take root during that horrible decade?)

I mean, I played the Baldur's Gate games, and they had "cut-scenes" in them, but they seem ridiculous in a real RPG.

Am I missing something? Help!

 

[Maggan]

And... cut!

I simply do not understand this distinction. How could players know about an event in the world that their characters do not? This makes no sense to me...

But hey, I am merely a CAVE-MAN DnD Dungeon Master, frightened by your strange flying carpets and bolts of lightening....

Seriously, this idea makes no sense to me. (I first played DnD in 1979, but stopped from 1990-2000 -- did this strange idea take root during that horrible decade?)

I mean, I played the Baldur's Gate games, and they had "cut-scenes" in them, but they seem ridiculous in a real RPG.

Am I missing something? Help!

Some people like cut-scenes, others don't. (wow! what a revelation! )

Insofar as cut-scenes giving players metagame information, that is a trade off, where this information can have a positive impact on the story and the players' enjoyment of the story. Players have access to a lot of metagame info anyway, so I don't see this as something of a problem.

In my opinion cut-scenes work best if they give the players vague clues that something bad is happening or is going to happen, and then forcing them to play not using this knowledge, which means (sometimes) that you get some pretty tense moments when the players know they are facing something bad and mysterious, and the pcs don't.

Cheers!

Maggan

 

[Belegbeth]

Some people like cut-scenes, others don't. (wow! what a revelation! )

Insofar as cut-scenes giving players metagame information, that is a trade off, where this information can have a positive impact on the story and the players' enjoyment of the story. Players have access to a lot of metagame info anyway, so I don't see this as something of a problem.

In my opinion cut-scenes work best if they give the players vague clues that something bad is happening or is going to happen, and then forcing them to play not using this knowledge, which means (sometimes) that you get some pretty tense moments when the players know they are facing something bad and mysterious, and the pcs don't.

I actually did not have an "anti-cut-scenes" position prior to my post. Really, the entire idea never even occured to me as something to do in a PnP RPG. I was/am amazed that people were/are doing it.

I guess my main complaint against it (aside from the fact that it seems to reinforce the already prevalent complaint that 3.5 DnD is too CRPG in form) is that it really seems to detract from the RP element of the game. Players SHOULD be confused about what is going on! They SHOULD be struggling to fit together pieces of a complex puzzle -- and indeed, pieces that may in fact have nothing to do with each other. Cut-scenes looks like a cheesy cheat, IMO.

But then again, this is a strange new idea to me. Much like your strange "paper" and "dice", to this Cave Man Dm...

 

[Aeric]

Some of my players liked cutscenes, while others felt it was too jarring to switch from first-person to third-person like that.

The only problem I had with cutscenes is when I had a conversation between NPCs. While I never actually got around to doing it in the last campaign I ran, I always thought it would be fun to print the scene up as a script and have the players read the different parts. That way they would still be involved, and not just be audience to a GM talking to himself.

In terms of players metagaming knowledge of facts revealed in cutscenes, all the GM has to do is be vague when it comes to specifics. One of the scenes I did involved an enemy captain ordering the destruction of the queen's summer palace, which was not only in the city the PCs were in, but was also where the prince (whom the PCs had become friends of) was at the time. The point of the scene was to show the PCs who destroyed the palace, and that they did so knowing that the prince was inside. However, so the PCs wouldn't run off to save him from a danger they couldn't possibly know about ("meta-sense is tingling!"), I merely left out the little detail of what the target was and who the person inside was. It worked like a charm.

 

[Ryltar]

While I love them as a plot device in novels and films, I have a hard time using them while gaming. Sure, it serves pretty well to get your players more "immersed" in the story, but then again, you can never be sure that no one will use that OOC knowledge in some kind of way that slips by your (= the DM's) attention.

But your opinions here almost made me rethink my statement . Maybe I'll give it one more try.

 

[Cor Azer]

I actually did not have an "anti-cut-scenes" position prior to my post. Really, the entire idea never even occured to me as something to do in a PnP RPG. I was/am amazed that people were/are doing it.

I guess my main complaint against it (aside from the fact that it seems to reinforce the already prevalent complaint that 3.5 DnD is too CRPG in form) is that it really seems to detract from the RP element of the game. Players SHOULD be confused about what is going on! They SHOULD be struggling to fit together pieces of a complex puzzle -- and indeed, pieces that may in fact have nothing to do with each other. Cut-scenes looks like a cheesy cheat, IMO.

But then again, this is a strange new idea to me. Much like your strange "paper" and "dice", to this Cave Man Dm...

Well to compare to a non-RPG environment, consider them as cut-scenes in television and movies ('cause strangely, that's what they're based on). The audience can see that the villains are fuming or planning something (but the details are left out), but the protagonists don't specifically know how the villains are reacting to their efforts. Similarly in an RPG, a cut-scene lets the players know roughly the reactions of NPCs in the world, and with luck, doesn't give them too much information that spoils their enjoyment of the game.

 

[Zappo]

I don't use them. I trust my players not to metagame, but I find that jumping from thinking in 1st person to thinking in 3rd person detracts a bit from immersion.

I simply do not understand this distinction. How could players know about an event in the world that their characters do not?

Fairly simple: my character is not me. I know about physics, but he can't build an electromagnet, even if it would be handy at times; I know about cryptography, but he can't digitally sign a message spell, even if it would be useful; I know that the villain is observing me, but he doesn't, even if it would save his behind.

I first played DnD in 1979, but stopped from 1990-2000 -- did this strange idea take root during that horrible decade?

I don't think it has taken root even now. I've met exactly one DM who made a sparse use of cutscenes, and then only in the WEG SW game, and only because he learnt it from that game.

 

[The_Gneech]

Sometimes I use 'em, sometimes I don't; it depends mostly on the game in question. They are great for giving NPCs (and particularly villains) personality. Since villains and PCs tend to cancel each other out when they make direct contact (or at least, they try to), the only way the players will know that Lord Nastypants has a tender spot for his beloved terrier (for instance) is if they get a chance to see him petting the pooch.

The key thing, I've found, is not to force the players' hand via use of cutscenes. It's one thing to have frost giants cause an avalanche on the party's head ... it's another to say, "You charge the frost giants and are quickly defeated and captured..."

-The Gneech