CW 16 and Dragon Disciple

[Saeviomagy]

I'm voting 'the rule is stupid'. It solves very little that's not solved already via DM fiat (because all PrCs are optional), and makes quite a few conceptual problems (ie - people losing EX abilities because their alignment changed) as well as some mechanical ones (dragon disciple).

 

[Borlon]

If it had said that the default rule was that a character who no longer meets the prerequisites could no longer advance, I would have accepted it. (Epic Dragon Disciple is not worded so that dragon apotheosis disqualifies people from entering, is it?) The situation would then be like bards who become lawful or barbarians who become chaotic.

They could even have given some criterion for which classes would work like paladins or druids; the ones that lose their powers if the alignment gets too far out of whack. Classes with divine casting have to meet alignment restrictions, or something.

I think that would have been, as the Jester puts it, a fine rule. Or pair of rules.

But just saying that if *any* prerequisite is no longer met, then *all* class features and special abilities are lost... that's just a little over the top.

What really peeves me is that there are not that many prestige classes in the DMG; shouldn't rules that are intended to apply to all prestige classes be checked first to see if they are compatible with the core rules? And if certain feats aren't to be used with the core classes (I'm looking at you, Precocious Apprentice!) either fix them or don't print them.

But, to get back on topic, I take it the issue of CW 16 has never been officially addressed?

 

[Saeviomagy]

If it had said that the default rule was that a character who no longer meets the prerequisites could no longer advance, I would have accepted it. (Epic Dragon Disciple is not worded so that dragon apotheosis disqualifies people from entering, is it?) The situation would then be like bards who become lawful or barbarians who become chaotic.

That IS the default rule from the core books.

 

[CyberSpyder]

That IS the default rule from the core books.

Actually, the default rule is that you only need the prerequisites in order to take the first level, making the rules introduced in CW a rather extreme change.

"Unlike the basic classes, characters must meet Requirements before they can take their first level of a prestige class."

"If a character does not meet the Requirements for a prestige class before that first step, that character cannot take the first level of that prestige class."

"To qualify to become an arcane archer, a character must fulfill all the following criteria."

And so forth.

 

[likuidice]

As has been said before, the character doesn't get the half dragon template, it's simply poor wording.

from wizards customer service:

at 10th level, the dragon disciple prestige class states that the character takes on the half dragon template, is this simply flavour text, or does the character actually gain the entire template, including level adjustment, stat boosts etc. Common sense dictates that its simply flavour text and the character simply gains the bonuses listed, however the passage mentions the template, so its unclear.

-This is simply flavor text, since the character only gets the benefits listed in the prestige class. Good Gaming!

*Please quote this email in any reply.*
*******************************************
Chris
Customer Service Department
Wizards of the Coast
1-800-324-6496
*******************************************

 

[Hypersmurf]

As has been said before, the character doesn't get the half dragon template, it's simply poor wording.

If by "The character takes on the half-dragon template", they meant "The character does not take on the half-dragon template", that's the worst case of poor wording I've seen yet!

-Hyp.

 

[Borlon]

But he doesn't actually become a dragon, then?

Well, that addresses the problem of the class self-destructing at level 10, at least.

 

[likuidice]

If by "The character takes on the half-dragon template", they meant "The character does not take on the half-dragon template", that's the worst case of poor wording I've seen yet!

-Hyp.

Given some of the glaring errors (see page XX) that have crept into products, it's not entirely unheard of. The entire line about the template should have been left out, it's badly written and unclear just what the character gains. For example, to me "takes on the template" means that the guy gets the entire template, level adjustment, stat boosts, etc, which I'm fairly certain is not the intent of the class.
To others, the meaning is that the character gains the few remaining things that the class didn't give him (dragon type, etc), but with this, where do you draw the line about what exactly the character gains, just the dragon type, the dragon type and a level adjustment, etc.

 

[Knight Otu]

If by "The character takes on the half-dragon template", they meant "The character does not take on the half-dragon template", that's the worst case of poor wording I've seen yet!

-Hyp.

I'd say they meant "The character has effectively taken on the half-dragon template now." Not that I can look into other peoples' heads.