• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

[CyberPunk] CyberPsychosis

Warren Okuma

First Post
Oddly enough I see it in an opposite way. Cybernetics have boosted self esteem in real life. Plastic surgery when done right boosts one's self esteem and body image. Our current day cybernetics are bringing happiness to lots of paraplegics, and sight to the blind.


In real life cybernetics seem to be a boon to those who has it installed.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

danzig138

Explorer
cignus_pfaccari said:
until you hit negative Essence and became a cyberzombie (which was really hard to do).
Really hard to do in the way of can't really do it. It's not like you could just suck up some neg Ess and say "Okay, I guess I'll be a cyberzombie now." Without the proper rituals and such, you couldn't hit negative Essence as I recall.
 

Jeff Wilder

First Post
NilesB said:
The cyberpsychosis rules in RTal's cyberpunk are inspired by Molly Millions' psycological problems
And Case's, and Armitage's, and Ratz's, and Angie's, and Dog's, and ... damned near everybody he shows with or implies has significant cyberware or cyber-connection.

I disagree that it misses the point: Gibson was definitely exploring alienation through cyberenhancement. You can argue that he was wrong, and I'm pretty sure later in this thread someone probably has, but it's pretty tough to argue that he wasn't making the case. (So to speak.)
 
Last edited:

HellHound

ENnies winner and NOT Scrappy Doo
Warren Okuma said:
Oddly enough I see it in an opposite way. Cybernetics have boosted self esteem in real life. Plastic surgery when done right boosts one's self esteem and body image. Our current day cybernetics are bringing happiness to lots of paraplegics, and sight to the blind.

A big boost in self-esteem matches up very well with the concept of cyberpsychosis in the classic CyberPunk RPG.
 

taferial

First Post
This is an excellent discussion, and i had to think carefully before replying to it Im a big big fan of dystopia rpg.

Ok, first thing i want to state, Shadowrun's essence loss is a rules balance specifically targeting the cyber-mage powergamer, and a role play hook that you can chose to dabble with if you so chose, but dosnt really affect the players until they want to go cyber zombie (which as i recall, had a machine as part of the ritual that had to keep reminding you that you wern't dead).

Cyberpunk's humanity loss however, is a mechanic that sits in the background of the whole game and should impact on virtually everything.

Secondly, the cyberware in CP had differing (and slightly random) costs attached to them depending on how far they took you from an imaginary line represented by your humanity score. Cosmetic and medical surgery had virtually no psychological impact unless you were radically altering yourself, for example the exotic packages, where you could look like a kitty girl, dragon etc.

The real damage came from the stuff that made you (at least to your mind) vastly superior to those around you. Chipped reflex's are a prime example of this. You can jack your reflex's so high, that everyone around you seems slow and clumsy, You live in a world in slow motion where your line between thought and action is very fine indeed. Put a switch on them however and you can reduce their impact on your life because you can interact with people at at the same speed they interact with you.

In CP you can get eyes that see through walls, arms and legs that can punch through cars, gills, flame throwers, guns in your head that let you kill with a thought, armour that makes you invulnerable and inbuilt chem labs to tweak your mind up down and sideways, remove fear, pain and any other human frailty. There are box's you can put in your head that record your life to be played back for entertainment, or put through an editing sweet to replace the actual events themselves, they can be used to create and replace friends, family, lovers and children in a self created virtual world you cant tell from the real one unless you can see the switch.

The mind in CP is no longer a plaything of the body, its the play thing of the credit card. The 6 million neuyen man is in faster, stronger and better than the people around him. When you can flip a coin and kill everyone in the bar before you find out weather its heads or tails, your going to lose the ability to relate to the meat-bags around you.

All that being said, I think that a humanity-loss mechanic is part and parcel of a true cyber punk game, but not a necessaraly part of a dystopia game, a world of instant fix and instant gratification is a scary one. A dark future with no limitations at all is terifying.

An example just ocured to me, you remember that slightly over officious guard that hasseled the party for a few silver peices? diddnt the party come back four levels later, pounch him in the face and stroll on without a second thought? and thats with power they had to work for, not just stroll into a shop and pick super powers off the shelf.

I think the question is weather you want to take some of the work out by putting in a humanity loss mechanic, or subtly alter your description of events as they slowly erode their own humanity. I prefere the second one but the first option takes a hell of a lot of presure off.

edited for typo's.
 

Wil

First Post
I haven't read the entire thread yet and I may be late to the party, but I wanted to chime in that I don't think that "cyberpsychosis" is necessarily something tied strictly to cybernetics. I think it has more to do with alienation, in general, and that's what I'd like to see captured in a cyberpunk game. Grimm's Cybertales, from Ianus Games, had some excellent charts for this sort of thing, along with their Stress rules. The way I can see it working is that a person feels alienation from something or someone - along with feelings of boredom, frustration, confusion, etc. that come along with alienation - they go out and do something to help themselves feel better (get a tattoo, piercing, cyberware, etc.). The problem is that it makes them more alienated and the cycle continues from there. This also means that the effects are going to be very personalized - one person who is simply getting cyberware because they like it might not really feel alienated at all, while someone who was a soldier and not only has justified cybernetics but the respect and support of people around him might feel extremely alienated (if only from the general populace).
 

Warren Okuma

First Post
HellHound said:
A big boost in self-esteem matches up very well with the concept of cyberpsychosis in the classic CyberPunk RPG.
So cyberpsychosis is happiness, being well adjusted, and comfortable with yourself? What?
 

HellHound

ENnies winner and NOT Scrappy Doo
Warren Okuma said:
So cyberpsychosis is happiness, being well adjusted, and comfortable with yourself? What?

No. In classic CP2020, the ultimate expression of humanity loss was a completely overwhelming sense of ego and self esteem. Obviously you are better off than you were, and with a lot of augmentation, you are now better than everyone else, to the point where they are basically valueless.
 

Warren Okuma

First Post
HellHound said:
No. In classic CP2020, the ultimate expression of humanity loss was a completely overwhelming sense of ego and self esteem. Obviously you are better off than you were, and with a lot of augmentation, you are now better than everyone else, to the point where they are basically valueless.
First of all I never typed "overwhelming sense of ego" and self esteem. Yes, your self exteem goes up, but not the amount of cyberpsychosis.

Cyberpsychosis appears to have more in common with fantasy than in with real devices. People who have real life cybernetics, just become happier and more fulfilled. Overwhelming happiness is the most common reaction. I mean if there is some magical or science fantasy reason why cybernetics makes you a monster or unhappy I don't care. But real life cybernetics is a true gift to those who get it.
 

Baron Opal

First Post
Warren Okuma said:
People who have real life cybernetics, just become happier and more fulfilled. ... But [in] real life cybernetics is a true gift to those who get it.

This is true but there are two important distinctions concerning the game. First, the modifications allow greater than human ability. Second, there is a culture where removal of healthy tissue for cybernetic replacement is encouraged. This is currently not the case for either in our world.

There were some case studies that I uncovered where body modification was decidedly harmful. One case involved real body sculpting; a woman had numerous surgeries to obtain a "Barbie" -like figure and appearance. This included shaving bone and transplanting fat from one location of her body to another. She developed significant internal scarring that began to impede her flexibility and her ADLs. There are also case reports of people implanting penile stelae to the point where they are incapable of intercourse. Skin stretches only so far before it tears.

The pattern that I saw was those surgeries and implants that were done to repair the body, to regain typical performance, we definately mentally healthy and restorative. Those that chose to modify their body to exceed typical performance or identity (tiger / snake people) display many other self-destructive or risk-taking behaviors.
 

Remove ads

Top