D&D 3E/3.5 D&D 3.5 : spellcasting rolls - ideas?

[iblis]

I've been thinking about 'spell success rolls' and options like that for a while now, and I thought that maybe some people here would be able to shed some light on the subject, either with opinions, experiences, suggestions or perhaps references to digital documents or printed books that cover this kind of ground.

Before I go any further, I think the magic system of D&D 3.5 can work fine as is, and I've been using it pretty much that way with but a few niggles. It's only my individual preferences for a certain campaign I have in mind pushing me away from the default and toward something a bit more... uncertain ...for magic-wielding characters. Ever wonder if a spellcaster's spell might fizzle once in a while, or go boom the wrong way? Yeh, me too.

I don't want to use the Sanity system from UA, where it interacts with spell-use that is. I do use it for a few other things, but not that.

All I've got so far is maybe I'll use a Spellcraft roll to determine spellcasting success (symbolising either an Arcane skill/attunement check or a Divine test of faith/connection). It wouldn't be too demanding (i.e. not sky-high DCs), but just having the chance of failure there might do the trick. Or would a Knowledge (Arcana)/(Religion) check be more appropriate for some reason?

Maybe I'll have critical failures as well - with possible additional unpleasant consequences. I'll only do this if other actions (e.g. melee attacks) have the possibility of same, however.

If spellcasting checks of some kind do get used, what about balancing factors - any ideas? Maybe more skill points and more class skills? More spells per day, to (statistically) ensure that some of them will likely work? Something else altogether?

Anyway, that's the general direction of thoughts about it so far. Any advice is welcome, thanks.

 

[Verequus]

If I understand you correctly, then spells shouldn't be automatic in success (barring saves, missed touch attacks and spell resistance), so that there is an additional layer for failure like through wearing armor.

I know a nice PDF - "Wild Spellcraft" from EN Publishing. You always a d20 and at a 1 the spell goes somehow wrong. This "somehow wrong" is more detailed in the book. Unfortunately, this book isn't really great - a sound 3 of 5, but if you don't want to change the magic system, it is probably the best book, I know of.

Another possibility is "Chaos Magic" - but every time you cast a wild spell, you suffer nonlethal damage. At least that is what I heard - I've never read that book.

 

[JimAde]

From a balance perspective, any change like this slightly weakens casters (as you say). You can balance it by either giving them a few more spells or (easier I think) allow exceptional successes as well as failures. Say on a critical success allow the caster to apply a metamagic feat of their choice (empower/widen/extend/etc.) without raising the spell level.

If you use a skill check some people will maximize their skill with feats. You could get a 1st-level wizard with a good stat having a +10 or more modifier. If you aim your DCs at that character, then those who aren't min-maxed will suffer.

One alternative is to use a caster level check instead. This gives domain/specialist spells a slight boost (more flavorful) and reduces min/maxing.

People will take feats like Practiced Spellcaster a lot more if they multi-class. Whether that's good or bad, I'm not sure.

 

[Wolf72]

if you're looking for putting checks on mages try the "Curse of the Magi" from DLCS ... basically make a fort save (higher lvl spells, harder save) or become fatigued ... each failure gets progressively worse until you fall unconcious (not good in a large combat scenario)

 

[Afrodyte]

If you can find it, the Sovereign Stone campaign setting uses spell rolls, but it has spell points be something that you not only have to spend automatically to power spells, but also as a gauge of how much magical energy you can process safely.

I made my own non-Vancian magic system that is based on a level check. It does go into sky-high DCs (DC 50 for a 9th-level spell), but there are things you can do to help your roll get better. If you're interested, I'll pluck it out of my notes and post it to you.

 

[Albert_Fish]

In my " Typical Amount of Magic" campaign I got tired of my players perfectly counting squares for Areas of Effect so as to dis-include allies.

To this end I invoked two seperate rules.

Rule 1: you may spend a round concentrating your spell so it does not effect your allies
or
Rule 2 make a Spell-craft Check DC 15 +1/2 of the Spell level. If the roll fails then role on your standard Grenade-like effects diagram.

I would adjust Rule 2 to a Level Check Granting bonuses on spells that are two levels blow the uppermost Spell Level; i.e. A fifth level spell caster gains a plus to to Level checks for casting 1st level spells.

You can also do the odds=1 rule fromthe Grim-n-Gritty system wherein all odd numbers rolled on damage or duration dice are counted as ones so that a 5 die fireball might roll as follows : 6,4,2,1,3=6,4,2,1,1=14 points of damage rather than 16. It makes it so you can roll the maximum amount, but you are more likely to role a smaller amount for either Duration or Damage.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Since spell resistance and saving throws already exist as ways to make spells go fizzle, it you're going to introduce another way to make spells fail, I suggest to consider the effect the three together will have.

If a wizard or sorcerer is already balanced (an "if" that can be debated elsewhere, but we'll consider this to be the case for now), then introducing another mechanism to weaken the class could be unbalancing (if by unbalancing we mean, makes the class weaker and less desireable to play than currently).

Spell resistance and saves rely in part on the caster and in part on the target. If you introduce something that relies almost entirely on the caster, then you might want to change the other two, somewhat.

Dave

 

[iblis]

Thanks to each poster who replied - there's some quite usable options there, and I've been thinking about them, in context.

Hm, more possibilities...

Vrecknidj : Yes, you're correct in your reasoning of course. However, I'm going to try re-balancing the classes after half-killing them. It's just the way I'd prefer to attempt handling things for the setting and plot I'm creating. Or alternatively, I could try endangering the non-magical classes equally. I have no intention of messing with save or SR values btw (except maybe in very minor campaign-specific type ways, if necessary). As I said, I think the system can and does work just fine as is - I'm only tinkering to such a degree to fit the world and concepts involved, and I probably won't be porting any of these mods over to my other campaigns.

Afrodyte : Did you get the message saying I'm interested in the magic system you mentioned? lmk either way, thanks.

(open call) : If anyone knows of sourcebooks that cover this ground really well - and that haven't been mentioned on this thread so far - here's your last chance to (maybe) part me from my credit.

 

[Klaus]

I wrote an alternate magic system that has been featured in Counter Pack 4: Eldritch Horrors and Occult Investigators. Granted, it's aimed at d20 Modern, but still...

 

[Afrodyte]

Afrodyte : Did you get the message saying I'm interested in the magic system you mentioned? lmk either way, thanks.

Unfortunately, I didn't. Try emailing me at afro_dyte2000@yahoo.com.