D&D 3e & 3.5e Is Not Really An RPG

[Blockader7]

Personally I'd say it's primary focus is that of a board/strategy game. 3.5 seemed to enhance that feel because of the things like spell rang templates it added.

An expansive board/strategy game, but nonetheless.

It's really the setting books, such as Forgotten Realms, that concentrate mostly on the role-playing elements. Not the three core books, PHB, MM, DMG.

 

[spacecrime.com]

So what's your point?

 

[S'mon]

I agree it does feel like that sometimes!

One strange thing is the lack of any morale rules in 3e. I use the Basic D&D 2d6 roll.

 

[MythosaAkira]

I agree it does feel like that sometimes!

One strange thing is the lack of any morale rules in 3e. I use the Basic D&D 2d6 roll.

Is it really necessary to have rules for morale? I would think that based on the particulars of a situation and the intelligence/personality/whatever of the monsters or NPCs, a DM should be able to adjudicate how they would react. An iron golem, for instance, is likely to fight until destroyed, while an orc that just saw his nine buddies get fried is likely not to stick around to see what would happen to him. If someone could truly go either way, flip a coin. Granted, any rule could be handled "manually" by the DM, but it always felt like the morale rules were unnecessary and slowed things down.

I ignored the morale rules in 1e/2e and simply decided what something would do based on what it was and was kind of situation it found itself in.

 

[S'mon]

Is it really necessary to have rules for morale? I would think that based on the particulars of a situation and the intelligence/personality/whatever of the monsters or NPCs, a DM should be able to adjudicate how they would react. An iron golem, for instance, is likely to fight until destroyed, while an orc that just saw his nine buddies get fried is likely not to stick around to see what would happen to him. If someone could truly go either way, flip a coin. Granted, any rule could be handled "manually" by the DM, but it always felt like the morale rules were unnecessary and slowed things down.

I ignored the morale rules in 1e/2e and simply decided what something would do based on what it was and was kind of situation it found itself in.

The 1e rules were unworkable, agreed. I use morale rules for the 'flip a coin' situations for groups of NPCs - say 5 out of 9 orcs have been killed, while the 4 PCs are still up and fighting - do the remaining 4 run away or keep fighting? I assign a morale figure, if the 2d6 roll exceeds it they run away. I use figures similar to the Leadership stat in Warhammer Battle - 5 for goblins, 7 for orcs and hobgoblins, up to 10 for elite bodyguards. It's used to measure 'herd mentality' where eg a Will save seems inappropriate. Golems and non-intelligent undead don't check morale.

 

[Olive]

If it's not an RPG for you, you're playing it wrong... and perhaps not reading the DMG properly.

And how is it more a boardgame than 2e? The emphasis on minis?

 

[Zappo]

If I've understood correctly, you feel that a campaign setting is required in order to make an RPG out of D&D. I disagree on that idea, but I understand that it's conceivable. The basic three books give very, very little "fluff". That's because they were designed to be primarily rulebooks. They give all that is mechanically needed to play, but the feeling, the setting - that's entirely left to the DM. It doesn't mean that it is irrelevant, only that it's left to the DM.

The reason? Because while it is possible to write rules that suit most of the players, you can't write a setting, a tone that works for everyone. So, you get the rules, and then you design your own roleplaying experience (or buy a premade one that suits you).

 

[Tonguez]

When 2e came out I switched to GURPS and would rave to friends about how much better it was than DnD.

Then one friend poined out that DnD provided detailed rules for combat but was otherwise quite freeform. Its only in combat that you need rules (my friend pointed out) the rest of the time players should be using imagination.

Anyway suffice to say that when 3e came out I switched back to DnD...

 

[just__al]

I agree it does feel like that sometimes!

One strange thing is the lack of any morale rules in 3e. I use the Basic D&D 2d6 roll.

I generally use an intimidate check from the person who is most visually affecting the opposition with some circumstance bonuses. Works pretty well. Orcs tend to scatter after a big lightning bolt mows through them or the fighter they were all swarming power attacks for 5 and takes down 6 of them with a great cleave.

Sometimes though, I just go by what they would be thinking at the time and have them "fail" their morale check.

 

[Desdichado]

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