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D&D 5E D&D 5e nearing 800,000 copies sold?

Hang on, I read that article that Morrus linked.

750k copies of what? PHB? I seriously doubt it. 750k copies of all their books? That I could believe a lot easier. Considering the highest selling single product was the Red Box and it topped just a bit over a million, I really, really doubt that any single AD&D book was selling at that rate.

That article is a bit lacking in detail.
I wondered that as well.

It's conceivable it meant just the PHB. It's not impossible if they were being liberal with what a "year" meant, and including sales to the distributor, and they were describing sales at the peak year which was followed by a steep drop-off.
But, yeah, they're probably describing either total books sold or even total books and modules...

Still, even if a fifth of that number was the PHB it's still good. They'd potentially be selling 150,000 PHBs each year, which is nothing to sneeze at. Selling an average of that number of copies 1978 and 1985 is still over a million books.
 

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Meant to reply to this, but life happened. Just remembered. So, yay insomnia?

I don’t know, but I’m sure they had fairly accurate sales figures in the 80s. They had later endemic problems, but I don’t know that keeping records of sales figures was one.
Keep in mind that in the mid-1980s TSR also struggled. A lot.

In 1983 TSR actually lost money and survived via a bank loan, which carried with it the stipulation of staff reduction. Eventually they ended up laying off three-quarters of its 400 employees. This led to the executives in charge of the company being let go (the Blumes), which saw the brief return of Gygax before being ousted by Lorraine Williams in 1985.
While Williams ended up making some pretty bad decisions in the mid-90s, all throughout the height of the D&D boom of 1980-85 the company was terribly managed.

Pretty much what you'd expect with a publishing company being run by a cobbler who hadn't graduated from high school, as well as and a 23-year-old* who persuaded his father to invest in the business and then hired his younger brother**, neither of which had an education in business or management experience.

*Brian Blume, born in 1950 and joined TSR in 1973, writing Eldritch Wizardry.
** Kevin Blume, born 1952, hired to help manage the money and who became President of Operation in 1981

https://medium.com/@increment/the-ambush-at-sheridan-springs-3a29d07f6836

One particular quote of note from the above:

TSR’s accounting and fiscal reporting in this period were irregular, and sometimes problematic, but even within a considerable margin of uncertainty the company’s growth was unmistakable. TSR’s gross sales stood around $2M in 1979. By one internal account, sales the following year reached $16M, a 5,233% increase over just five years before—it was on the strength of this figure that Inc. Magazine awarded TSR sixth place in its 1981 list of the one hundred fastest-growing privately held companies. That eightfold leap in sales seems unlikely, however, as later TSR statements peg 1980 revenue at only half that, $8.7M, a number that conforms far better to the company’s overall growth curve.

Figures later in that do suggest something [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] wondered about, with the starter set pegged at selling 12,000 copies per month, several years prior and before a decline. So the 750k figure is probably total books sold, not Player's Handbooks.
 


Horwath

Legend
800k seems low to me too when compared to other media. Diablo 3 sold 30 million copies, for example. The Nintendo Wii sold 100 million units, and The Hunger Games (the book series) sold 65 million. Pretty humbling.

On the other hand, 5E is doing really, really well for a tabletop game. And I'm optimistic enough to think that the upward trend will continue -- maybe even to the point where D&D sales will compare favorably with video game sales in the not-too-distant future.

They will never be close, because people are people. Lazy and unsocial.

It's 1000× easier to start a PC game to majority of population than to coordinate 5/6 people to same time and space for 4-6 hours per week/per two weeks.

Target audience is simpy larger for video games.


But this are promising numbers.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
750k copies of what? PHB? I seriously doubt it. 750k copies of all their books? That I could believe a lot easier.
I suspect the PH would be the lion's share of the sales, though. Lots of players (even if not every player at every table) buy a PH. Not nearly so many of the buy a SCAG or something. Only those who might DM buy the DMG & MM, and only a sub-set of those go on to buy all the adventures...
 

Hussar

Legend
I suspect the PH would be the lion's share of the sales, though. Lots of players (even if not every player at every table) buy a PH. Not nearly so many of the buy a SCAG or something. Only those who might DM buy the DMG & MM, and only a sub-set of those go on to buy all the adventures...

Note, that 750k number is for 1e, so, SCAG isn't really a thing there. :D

But, again, 750k/year for PHB's doesn't jive with other numbers. The best selling single RPG product is the red box and it tops out at 1 million copies full stop. So, there's no way that they were selling 750k PHB's in a single year. That would make the 1e PHB the top selling single RPG product by miles.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
Note, that 750k number is for 1e, so, SCAG isn't really a thing there. :D
Sorry, thought we were talking 5e to date, not any given year of the fad...

But, again, 750k/year for PHB's doesn't jive with other numbers. The best selling single RPG product is the red box and it tops out at 1 million copies full stop. .
or 1.2 or 1.5 depending on who's quoting what. But, who knows what fact-checking was done for that 30yo article. Might've been TSR total units moved, people still don't know D&D from Gamma World...
;)
 

Note, that 750k number is for 1e, so, SCAG isn't really a thing there. :D

But, again, 750k/year for PHB's doesn't jive with other numbers. The best selling single RPG product is the red box and it tops out at 1 million copies full stop. So, there's no way that they were selling 750k PHB's in a single year. That would make the 1e PHB the top selling single RPG product by miles.

So are you just referring to TSR/WotC products or all gaming products? Because I find it hard to believe that the Pathfinder core book, between physical and pdf sales, would not have gone well past 1 million by now. Maybe even 2 million.
 

Hussar

Legend
So are you just referring to TSR/WotC products or all gaming products? Because I find it hard to believe that the Pathfinder core book, between physical and pdf sales, would not have gone well past 1 million by now. Maybe even 2 million.

That's TSR. We have no idea how many Pathfinder core books have sold. Somehow I seriously doubt it's sold so many. Pathfinder never managed to capture that much of the market.
 

That's TSR. We have no idea how many Pathfinder core books have sold. Somehow I seriously doubt it's sold so many. Pathfinder never managed to capture that much of the market.

I don't know. Here in the US it sure seemed like it was everywhere. Nearly any convention that offers roleplaying has a large Pathfinder Society representation. And a lot of gamers who were totally turned off by 4th Ed D&D turned to Pathfinder instead. Pathfinder even knocked D&D out of the top spot for several quarters from 2011-2013.

But this kind of stuff in general is something I hate about the publishing business: the secrecy around sales figures. The music industry does not pull this BS. The movie industry does not. And until maybe a couple of years ago, actual sales numbers were reported for the video game and pc game industry too. But with the publishing industry, unless something really spectacular happens, like a book breaking sales records, overall numbers are generally not released. Sometimes if makes me feel like the publishing industry is full of scammers and con artists, with some honest people mixed in.
 

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