D&D Archetypes that are missing from the core books?

[GQuail]

Most of the powers can be easily adapted to another flavor with just a bit flexibility. Call the self-heal from a monk "second wind". Slow fall can stay slow fall, no reason why only oriental martial artists would know how to fall. Ranger spells can be renamed too, if needed.

I guess I see the stuff much more abstract, without tieing all powers to their description. I have problem taking the mechanics, and giving them a new "paint coat". That way, there's no question of being underpowered.

I guess it depends quite how high level you go and how far you're moving your character from his starting class' flavour. I can't imagine why a fist-fighter or bear wrestler would have slow fall, or why a watchman or bounty hunter would be casting Cure Light Wounds on himself: and characters having such skills because it was what the base class had without any story reasons would break my suspension of disbelief somewhat.

On the other hand, it's probably viable to work it into the character's history or training somehow, and if you do it I'm sure it would play fine.

 

[Gargoyle]

Whizbang, in the above quote, puts words to something I feel is very true - the fact that there are some iconic archetypes that are simply not there in the core rules; mainly as a single class, in my opinion.

If one goes into multiclassing, sure you can sometimes get what you are looking for, but there are several dedicated roles that have gaping holes where they should be.

My own list:

• Battlemage/Warwizard that has full spells/full BAB class (ie the duskblade)
• Assassin/Cut-throat base class; a martial rogue (ie an assassin-like class)
• Duelist/Swashbuckler base class that is a finesse fighter (ie a better-designed swashbuckler from ComWar)
• Pugilist/Pankration-type character (ie a fist-fighter/grappler that isn't a orientally-themed class like the monk)
• Noble/Aristocrat that's not a NPC class
• Scout (ie like a ranger/rogue or the scout class itself)

Discuss

I would like to see the assassin and swashbuckler added as core, base class options.

The assassin is core already, but should be a base class instead of a prestige class because it is not a campaign specific type of character or a very specialized concept, and it has been a D&D archetype for a long time. Making "assassin" into a prestige class makes as much sense as having a "hunter" prestige class. I like the magical abilities of the class, and its overall design, but I want assassins after my player characters at lower levels, and I want my evil player characters, when I allow such a thing, to have that option at first level.

In my opinion, the swashbuckler does not have a long history as a D&D archetype, but I feel that it has earned its place in recent years. People want to run these type of campaigns, and they want to play these types of characters. Urban adventures are more common than they used to be, and the concept is iconic and fun. I agree that a better designed swashbuckler would be nice for a base class in the core rules.

I like the favored soul because I think the core rules need a spontaneous divine caster. It works on both a flavor level as there are so many clerics out there devoted to a particular deity, and on a mechanics level, as there is often a need for more divine casters; more options for such a caster would help. But the name of the class, the wings, and the lack of domain abilities make me think that a redesign is in order. I would prefer a more iconic, one word name like crusader (already taken I know) or prophet, no wings (Not overpowered or anything, I just don't think it fits in with the type of abilities that you get in a typical core class, seems prestige class-like to me), and they need to work some domain abilities in there for a class that devotes itself to a particular deity.

I do not want to see classes like the duskblade in the core rules. I actually like the class, but my reasoning is that what we really need for these types of truly hybrid classes is better multiclassing rules. Swashbucklers and assassins are not hybrid characters, they are specializations of existing base classes that have unique abilities not well represented by multiclassing. A character like the duskblade should be buildable with multiclassing, but the current rules fail us here.

I would prefer a fighter/wizard that:

- Does not have spellcasting or fighting ability hamstringed. They shouldn't be as good as single classed characters, but they should be able to contribute to the group.
- Starts as both a fighter and wizard, and is not overpowered or gimped at first level.
- Does not have to use all of their feats to overcome problems caused by their multiclassing choice; I like that there are feats like Combat Casting to help with this, but I don't think such a character should feel like it's a must to spend every feat to overcome multiclassing handicaps.

 

[Agent Oracle]

Battlemage: Okay, he has Full attack, and full magic. He's a gestalt Spellcaster / Fighter. Why play anything else? clearly, he is optimal for dealing with any kind of enemy. You mention not having to hamstring a build, but what you are blind to is that every build is hamstringed! fighters have poor skills and only one good save, plus their ability to inflict damage is limited by their weapon choice. Wizards have low hit points and only middling skills, but they can deal massive amounts of damage for short periods of time. If a class had full attack and full casting, what would limit it? poor hit points? then why have full attack if it can't survive melee? bad skills? they would have to get lower than the 2 skill points fighters get, and still be able to get important-to-spellcasting skills like Concentration.

Assassin: It's called "Rogue: Alignment, Evil."

Finesse Fighter: Take basic fighter, Houserule that their DEX add to the to-hit for both melee and ranged, and STR adds only to damage. Make Armor check penalties apply to their to-hit as well as skill checks. There, that was easy. You realize that the core reason for Swashbucklers was that if you wore heavy armor on a ship and got knocked over the side, you were doomed, right?

Pugalist: Already did this one. played a fat monk (think friar tuck) I just punched people hard. Never used any of the other big class features. (slowfall, etc.) 'cept for flurry.

Noble: "My Daddy is rich and owns land and KNOWS people! Important people!"
"That's great, how exactly will this help us defeat the giant scorpion in a long forgotten tomb?"
Making a bit of character background into a core defining element of the class is almost silly.

Scout: Move silently. Hide. Spot. Listen. Those are the complete, total necessary abilities of a scout. Any class with those abilities (and most without) can scout ahead, scout around, look for danger, etc.) You'll need to better define it.

Non-battle oriented divine caster: is all about spell choice. Pick a dozen "Create water" type spells, and viola! you're completely ineffective in combat!

Light Armored Archer: See "Ranger".

Aristocratic warrior: Knight. He has knowledge (nobility), though no diplomacy, i guess he's supposed to be the loyal-to-the-aristocracy warrior. Alternately: paladin: Knowledge (nobility) and Diplomacy.

Commander Class: Actually seems pretty good. any class that could attract meat shields, er, cohorts as a feature instead of by taking a feat would be pretty nifty... though the class would have to resolve a few issues (distribution of treasure, Do the others level up? how does one lead effectively? is there a leadership oath or something? etc.)

Scout: same as above.

Martial Artist: Another Monk variant i guess. See the pugalist

Swashbuckler: See Finesse fighter. Again: No armor because if they fall overboard, they die.

Arcane Warrior: See Duskblade

Nature Themed Arcane Caster: See Wu Jen.

Spontaneous Divine Caster: See Favored Soul

Aristocratic Warrior: See above about nobles and whatnot.

Alchemist: see, artificer. it's not magic, it just does the same thing.

 

[Cam Banks]

Noble: "My Daddy is rich and owns land and KNOWS people! Important people!"
"That's great, how exactly will this help us defeat the giant scorpion in a long forgotten tomb?"
Making a bit of character background into a core defining element of the class is almost silly.

Any character can play a noble character, but the noble class is designed to accomodate those individuals who make a career out of diplomacy, currying favors, social activity, and inspiring other characters. It may also be used for merchant princes, diplomatic envoys, chieftains, and multiclassed with other classes to result in knights and cavaliers without the knight class being required.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Mighty Veil]

Replace the fluff text from monk with european fluff text, and you have your pugilist. Ditto for weapon master.

Yes. I did that with the campaign I'm running. Using Monk as a weapon master based class.

 

[Nightfall]

Hero,

Maybe I don't want just use skills but actual spells. I don't want to just bluff, sleight of hand, and pick pocket my way into trouble. I want real spells! But maybe not every day. Like Wild mage of 2nd edition... some days my spells work. Some days they don't.