DragonLancer said:
Sorry to jump the thread but I ask cos I picked up D20 Modern today, how compatible would the Monster Manual be with the D20 Modern rules? What would I need to consider?
Not as compatible as it looks at first glance.
You need to adjust CRs, and this adjustment is not uniform. Monsters with DR need to have their DR removed or nerfed. Unlike in DnD, a Modern character doesn't run around with +5 shock weapons and Strength-boosting items. As he does less damage, he needs to face lower DR. Monsters with save DCs need the DCs nerfed, as D20 Modern characters have lower saves (lower base saves (max +5 instead of +7 at 10th-level for base classes), no stat-boosting items, no save-boosting items) - this includes every poisonous and spellcasting creature in the MM. As Modern characters do less damage (and, especially, less spell damage) you need to nerf monster hp. If beating a monster requires magic (eg it can turn invisible), do not use that monster.
And then there are attack bonuses and AC. Past the first few levels Modern character Defense values will be low compared to DnD AC values, even when you take class Defense into account. As a result, you'll need to nerf monster attack bonuses, possibly quite heavily, as a lot of DnD monsters don't miss in combat.
Monster AC values may need a nerf (no +5 weapons or stat-boosting items, you recall) but not by as much as their attack bonuses ... a large number of DnD monsters have lame AC values, at least against DnD characters.
By the time you're done, you'll have redone the monsters yourself. A good source of Modern monsters are Urban Arcana (avoid the DnD ripoffs,
especially dragons and magic-using monsters) and Menace Manual (avoid the magic-using monsters).
You'll notice a lot of monsters in the Modern handbook are exactly the same as the ones in the MM, such as mind flayers. This is not a good thing. A D20 Modern mind flayer is nastier as he faces less powerful opposition than the DnD version. Plus, it's actually quite difficult to make a DC 17 Will save if you're an 8th-level D20 Modern character.
Unfortunately this is the weakest part of the Modern core book, and for a time used to spark flame wars at WotC's boards.
Parting shot: if you see a humanoid monster that usually uses classes (eg goblins) in both Modern and DnD, use the DnD version, not the Modern one. Unfortunately, the stats for the goblin, ogre, minotaur, etc in Modern suck, starting with the 12 point buy. (The troll Tough hero, for instance, should have stats Strength 26, Dex 17, Con 28, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 4 instead of the stats listed in the book.) Give it a Modern base class (Ordinary or Hero), use appropriate stats
and give it an occupation! Yes, monsters can use occupations, even if you're using Shadow (which you won't find in Shadowrun).
If it's a monster like an ogre or a troll you will need to boost it's CR. Don't forget they can use Advanced Classes if they meet the pre-reqs. (Ogres with Tough levels and Second Wind are nasty. So are trolls with Tough levels and the Acid Resistance/Fire Resistance talents.)
IMO these DnD throwbacks shouldn't use guns (unless they're a Shadowrun race likes elves, orcs, and dwarves) but that's just me.
Edit: I guess that wasn't a parting shot.
FX balance problems: it's hard to describe if you haven't played a game with the mental classes before, but even the briefest glance at the Mage class will let you know it's stronger than the Smart class.
Every Smart level gives you something. Every Mage level (except for 1st) gives you
two things. (I'm not counting the familiar as a bonus, of course.) That new thing - spells!
Spells that replace skill checks (eg
knock or Treat Injury). You may have noticed the lock release gun (pop a lock without a skill check) but it only works on average locks, not Fort Knox, and only if they're key locks, not electronic locks. As for Treat Injury, you can heal a little damage per character once per day, or use Surgery to heal lots of damage, taking a minimum of 1d4 hours and exhausting the creature you just healed for a minimum of
six hours. Or you can just dish out a couple of
cure light wounds, which, while still limited, can be cast as often as you have spell slots on the same character.
Spells that do huge amounts of damage (and, unlike improvised explosives, DM fiat doesn't work on them), which is worse in a game where no one has save-boosting cloaks, stat-boosting items or even high Mas scores.
Actually, do a save DC/saving throw comparison. The save DCs be nasty, especially since the mage gets Spell Focus (the +2 version) for free and most classes have nothing that can deal with save-or-suffer spells... and their base saves are lower. While the Mage doesn't get a headband of Intellect that can boost his save DCs by another three points, the victims don't get cloaks of resistance that could have boosted their saves by
five points. Treat Injury can relieve dazed and stunned conditions, fortunately, but nothing else.
Spells that are too good to avoid taking, such as
flaming projectiles.
That spell lets a ranged weapon inflict +2d6 fire damage, effectively doubling the damage of a 9 mm pistol. Let's compare it to Burst Fire. Casting the spell requires an Int of 13. Burst Fire requires a Wis of 15. Balanced so far.
Burst Fire requires
three feats. Flaming Projectiles requires none. Burst Fire requires you to take -4 to hit. Flaming Projectiles does not. Burst Fire takes 3 to 5 bullets to use. Flaming Projectiles takes one. Only you can use Burst Fire. Flaming Projectiles can be cast on
anyone's gun. When you have Burst Fire, good luck convincing your DM to trade out the feat. Not only is the Mage not required to prepare that spell every day, but he can prepare it and some more world-shattering spells, too!
Or how about the invisibility spells. In a Shadowrun campaign, where everyone knows about magic, maybe guards carry around bags of flour and corridors have gauzy curtains hanging all over the place just to control that one spell. The mage sits on the roof, invisible, and dishes out death. The flour isn't getting up there, not without some weird invention the mage will torch in round one.
Sigma said:
I'm trying to decide between one of three possible campaign ideas, but all of them are more fantasy than modern.
1. D&D using d20 modern (and thus doing away w/magic items)
2. Modern D&D (something like the modern day greyhawk articles in the early 3.0 days of Dragon/Dungeon)
3. Cyberpunk D&D (aka Shadowrun)
1) That is probably the best solution, although you will have FX problems. However, it's pretty fun to make a medieval Strong/Tough warrior. Will be beat the Fast/Strong swashbuckler rival? Test it out! Or read about it in
A Song of Ice and Fire or
Romance of the Three Kingdoms or even
Sengoku.
2) Err... from a flavor point of view it would drive me nuts, but it's your campaign. I think there's some non-D20 Modern products that would cover it, but what do I know.
3) I haven't used the OGL Cyberpunk rules, so I wouldn't know how well it works. I didn't think it was a DnD product, but it might be older than D20 Modern. I know I wouldn't want to use DnD classes, however, as I've been permanently spoiled by class Defense, occupations, and too many feats in my cereal. ^^
