D&D is dying by the hour

[Frawan]

Greetings

What I want to bring up in this thread might have been discussed elsewhere, but I would like to bring together a few threads concerning Paizo, Wizards, 4th edition and the OGL.

I was one of those old gamers, that had been away from the game for some time, and was quite excited when 4th edition was annouced. Initially everything was new and fresh and we a got a few good teasers and previews. Now that we are approaching release of 4th edition I am starting to wonder if Wizards are simply killing D&D as the clock ticks.

There are several factors that leads me to say this: First off a lot of the new stuff such as Gleemax and DnDInsider didn't really live up to my (and a lot of other peoples and publishers) expectations. Neither did the previews that people have gotten of the online-tools.

That I guess is something I can live with, as there can always be room for improvements.

The next big failure in the launching of 4th edition was/is the annoucement of a GSL due to be out in november, which no publisher has yet seen. Not even a rules-preview for "close 3rd party publishers" as with 3rd edition.

This led to the third big blow for Wizards: The Paizo annoucement of their own RPG / 3.5 compatible.

Now ususally when you up, or big things such as the 3rd party publisher not going 4th ed you need to do something. The LEAST Wizards could do is to communicate with the fans. Instead we get a deadly silence, making things even worse. No reassurances or any kind of comments on how 4th will be launched when no 3rd party publishers will be ready. Neither any comments on the GSL and what is happening.

Having followed the MMO-business for a couple of years I would say that in MMO language long silence from a developer almost always means that someone is pulling the plug. Even if a game (in this case the GSL) gets delayed 1-2 years the least the developer can do is communicate. By each hour that Wizards keeps silent, they frustrate and alienate possible 4th ed. players. Initially contact was good and Wiz-VIPs regularly showed up on various boards. Now we get nothing. While Paizo is actively communicates with their fans on a regular basis, Wizards is completely silent about major events that are of importance to the 4th edition. Who cares about crunch and fluff, when the game you love is heading for an unsecure future, and other parties (Paizo) picking up where Wizards left the fans hanging. We as gamers are not stupid - we are not only interested in getting the newest releases from Wizards, no questions asked. As "modern" consumers we want to know what is going on behind the curtain...

So what do you guys think? Is my analysis that Wizards is killing off D&D by not communicating at all correct?

 

[Crothian]

Nope, because most of the D&D fans don't care. They don't go to on line forums, they don't read the latest ground breaking news. They just play the game and enjoy it. They speak with the dollar and little else.

 

[Lorthanoth]

What he said.

I game with three friends who have never heard of ENWorld, I introduced them to Paizo (which after initially liking, they're rapidly going off) and they are mad keen as anything for 4E. They haven't played since 4E.

 

[Boarstorm]

It's called a marketing lull. It's designed to build anticipation for the new product.

D&D isn't dead. Not by a long shot. They're just making us salivate and "want more" for a little while before releasing the next glut of preview information.

 

[Duckforceone]

well from what i have seen from different mmorpgs, some where the designers are on the horn the moment the servers come down, and holds regular interviews and blogs directly relating to the upcoming patches and features, and games where almost nothing is told until the time for implementation comes.

And the reaction of the users tend to be the same on forums. People will always be displeased, but the companies seem to always pull through, unless they really do some extra critical errors.

And i don't think wizards are even close to that yet.

 

[drjones]

They have spent years paying developers to make the game, sent the books off to be printed but they are 'killing' it right before all that investment pays off?

If the IP owners really thought it was a sinking ship they would cut their staff and other expenses while still trying to put out shoddy merch to get some more money out of it. Dropping it like a rock would be leaving cash on the table.

Wotc has done some baffling things with the changeover but they are all marginal compared to their main thrust: to get DDi and 4th out there and making money.

 

[M.L. Martin]

The death of D&D and of tabletop roleplaying in general has been predicted for years uncounted.

I'll believe it when I see the body.

(And Wizards is a branch of a publicly held company, so they have to be more careful about what they say.)

 

[Herodotus]

I don't think that Wizards is killing off D&D by not communicating.

I think they are not communicating information about the GSL progress because that is happening in rooms with lawyers and lawyers tend to be tight-lipped.

I also think that it is premature to say that programs and website in their pre-alpha and alpha stages don't live up to expectations. I use Gleemax every day. It is wonky and difficult, but it's not even in beta yet. Personally, I was impressed by the Game Table app demoed at D&D Experience, especially given that it was a pre-alpha version.

Finally, I don't think the Paizo Pathfinder system is as big a blow to 4e as you think it is. When I think of Paizo's 3.x content, I think of Dungeon, Dragon, and Adventure Paths. The magazines are now being published by Wizards and it seems as though Wizards will be returning an emphasis to publishing adventures since there are already 5-7 4e adventures in their product catalogue. My guess would be that they will publish a 1-30 adventure path each year to accompany the annual campaign setting.

 

[Belphanior]

First off, an RPG doesn't need a big online component, 3rd party publishers, or even to win over every single player who is satisfied with an earlier edition. Even if there was no GSL or DnDInsider at all we'd still have D&D and it will live. The fact that we do/will have these things can only make it bigger.

Second, I'd hesitate to write off Gleemax and DnDInsider because they haven't even been properly launched yet. All we've had so far are alpha versions and early beta. If you can gauge the death of D&D from such things you must be some kind of prophet who can also do it by the stars and the entrails of boars.

Third, I doubt Paizo is a big blow against wizards. I have several reasons for doing so;

* Pathfinder mainly appeals to people who have found their ideal game in 3.x, and so these people weren't a good market for 4e to begin with.

* All of Pathfinder so far is alpha and freely available for all. Pathfinder so far does nothing but bleed money for art, salaries, and god knows what else without making any real bucks. When the time comes for Pathfinder to get a true profitable release, 4e is already out and established with plenty of time to win over those who are sitting on the fence or even those who'll cave in to peer pressure and the desire to play the Next Big Thing with a real book.

* I personally suspect the final release will be 95% similar to the latest free beta, providing little incentive to buy it.

* I also think the backward compatibility of Pathfinder will seriously suffer and has indeed already done so. The exact level of compatibility will swing around like a yo-yo as more changes get introduced or removed, which usually won't exactly build a lot of trust and faith with the fanbase. In the end people will stitch together a Frankenstein's monster out of 3.5, 4e, and all various versions of Pathfinder there are to create their own homebrews. In short, I expect that Pathfinder makes a grab for the fragmented sector of the market in a hope to bind them to itself only to end up pulverizing shards into dust.

I consulted the tarot cards and the flights of migrating birds to back me up on this.

 

[Xethreau]

1) DDI and Gleemax are not even in their "release" state yet. True, they are crap at this point, but withhold judgment till their true release.
2) I agree that the GSL has been a flop so far, but I in no way think this is by any means the designer's fault.
3) Silence, while annoying, could mean any number of things. While let down by the delay, I remain an optimist.
4) There is a countdown till 4e on the front page of the D&D site, and it was put up pretty recently. Pretty risky move unless D&D's re-release was a sure thing.

Honestly, I don't really care much about the GSL; I didn't much care for non-D&D d20 products for the last edition, and my expectations are, unfortunately, set low. Regardless, I have full confidence that D&D will remain strong, and supposing that the GSL does get released in a timely manner from here on out, it will also be successful. From what I have heard from the designers about their feelings regarding the new edition, they would all be very likely to go postal if the "plug was pulled."