D&D is now in (exceedingly awesome) commercial form

[fanboy2000]

Are you trying to imply that, rather than make a sock-puppet account to promote yourself, you paid someone else to act as your sock-puppet?

I find that... unlikely.

Actually, I believe that he's implying that someone else is paying him to be their sock-puppet.

 

[Nifft]

Actually, I believe that he's implying that someone else is paying him to be their sock-puppet.

The only difference in our interpretations is whether we take what he's implying at face value.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Scribble]

Most of the adventures I buy these days are quite a bit cheaper than the ones you are buying. Paizo adventures (but not the adventure paths), Advanced Adventures, and others are a much better deal, offering far more (convertable) bang for my buck.

The convert-able thing is a subjective preference thing, so I can't really argue that... I'm not sure I even see the relevance. My argument is on a purely economical what you get for your money- this thing is an adventure plus, for a low cost.

Most print form adventures at Paizo are about 13 bux it seems- so sure 7 dollars cheaper, however, you also don't get:

Dice
Maps
Tokens
A tutorial teaching you how to play the game
Extra info for creating a secondary adventure (including info for leveling up the characters, monsters, treasure...)

Even a box to hold it all.

AKA you get everything in this one box that you need to play the adventure contained within, even if you've never played D&D before in your life.

Most adventures, even when designed for level 1- still require that you have a copy of the rules, your own dice, minis or tokens, etc...

This has it all.

Is it for everyone? No- obviously not. But my point is for a beginner who wants to experience/learn get started in D&D? This is a great deal, and much more then just an ad disguised with "bling."

Is it designed to kind of be used then sit on the shelf- sure... But no more so (and somewhat less so) then just about any adventure out there.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I think we can bring the whole "sock puppet or not" discussion to rest now, thanks.

 

[Raven Crowking]

The convert-able thing is a subjective preference thing, so I can't really argue that... I'm not sure I even see the relevance. My argument is on a purely economical what you get for your money- this thing is an adventure plus, for a low cost.

I'm going to stop you there for a moment.

If your main point is that the Red Box is more than an ad you pay for, I agree with you.

If your main point is that the Red Box is a good deal for an adventure, then I disagree.

Of course, as to the second case, if you need new dice, tokens, and a box, then I will concede that these are value-added extras. I don't think that the Red Box is overpriced -- it is priced low enough that, even as a non-4e player, I find the price attractive. Especially in regards to other WotC modules, as you noted.

The Red Box really isn't designed for my consumption. As I said, I would have been disappointed had I bought in on the basis of the commercial. And I can easily imagine that someone, thinking of buying it for his kids or grandkids, might mistake it for a product he once knew. I dislike that a lot.

But I do like the commercial for what it is. I am one of those individuals who actually knows where most (if not all) of the artwork came from, too. And I would be delighted if WotC committed to creating products with the same asthetic as the era that produced that artwork.

[I guess, really, that boils down to (1) what kind of fantasy moves me, and (2) what kind of game systems move me. I have said before that about half of what WotC did with 4e is of interest to me, and the other half leaves me cold. Now if they could just get the second half to match the first half.....Well, I would be more of a customer than I am.]

If the ad was reworked so that the older artwork led into new era pieces -- ones inspired by, and reflecting, the originals -- I think it would be just as effective, and wouldn't feel so misleading.

IMHO, anyway. YMMV.

Is it designed to kind of be used then sit on the shelf- sure... But no more so (and somewhat less so) then just about any adventure out there.

I have found the re-usability of some of the classic modules, with their focus on location over individual encounter set-up, to be highly reusable. This is true for early 3e modules as well....pre-delve format, anyway. Forge of Fury, Keep on the Borderlands, and Hommlet are all areas that can be reused throughout a campaign. Because some of the earlier modules include so many potential encounters -- and the possibility of encountering the same creatures more than once -- they can supply far more to an ongoing campaign than their page count might indicate.

As a good example of this, even using a system where the average fight takes only 15 minutes or less, The Pods Cavern of the Sinister Shroom supplied many weeks of adventure, with the characters making multiple forays, and still has an entire level unexplored.....as well as a villain who has escaped to potentially plague the area again.

So, I don't agree that other modules are intended to be used once and shelved. I think that the current format WotC is using tends to encourage this, but then I also think that WotC would be putting out much better modules if they just ditched the delve.


RC

 

[Hussar]

Even discounting everything else, twenty bucks for an adventure isn't bad. It might be more than other adventures, but, it's still in the right ball park.

I wonder how much regular modules would cost if they included tokens and battlemaps, never minding the other stuff.

If you play a 3e or 4e adventure, the assumption is there that you will use tokens of some sort and a battlemap. None of that is free. I remember the old Dragonlance modules, many of which had tokens and battlemaps, retailing somewhere around the ten or fifteen buck (Canadian) mark about twenty-five years ago.

So, twenty bucks US is hardly out of line.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Again, it depends upon the value of the adventure. I've gotten adventures that cost much more, while feeling that I've gotten full value. I've also gotten far cheaper ones where I felt ripped off.

So, yes, the Red Box is priced about right for what it is. IMHO. No, it is not priced right for the adventure it contains. IMHO. So, I wouldn't think about it in that way.

I know people's mileage varies quite a bit on both of those opinions!


RC

 

[Hussar]

Oh, you're saying something other than what I thought you were saying. I haven't seen anything of the module contained, so, I have no idea of the quality or what it's about.

I thought we were talking about somewhat more concrete things like production values and what you are physically getting for your dollar.

Is it good enough to be valued at 20 bucks? Have no idea.

 

[DumbPaladin]

So, actually about the ad ...

It made me laugh. That's all I can say.

I appreciate that, but it was more of a "laugh at" rather than a "laugh with", so ... probably didn't work as an ad for me at all.

 

[pming]

Hiya.

If I was a newbie, I'd be confused when I bought the Essentials Red Box; the ad has all this artwork and stuff...and that's nothing like what I'd be looking at.

If I was an old guarde being luered back, I'd be PO'ed because what they seem to be selling is nothing like what I'd remember.

Overall, bad ad. The only people it may not tick off or confuse are going to be people who are already playing 4e...thus, defeating the inteded purpose of the add in the first place (re: bringing in new blood).

(YMMV)

^_^

Paul L. Ming