• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

D&D 5E D&D Next weekly art column!

Status
Not open for further replies.
I concur and this is my favorite one too.

I know it is not generally done with Logos, but I'm thinking, as something that's never been done before with a D&D logo and we're after something "New" looking that still plays on the "old nostalgia"...has it been considered that "Dungeons" and "Dragons" don't need to be the same font?

--SD

That is something we have played with in the past. It is REALLY tough to pull off, and has never tested well with test groups. That said, I'll make sure we play with it again this go-round. Who knows, we might find the perfect mix!
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad


Klaus

First Post
That is something we have played with in the past. It is REALLY tough to pull off, and has never tested well with test groups. That said, I'll make sure we play with it again this go-round. Who knows, we might find the perfect mix!
Agreed, it's a tough thing to pull off and ends up as more of a gimmick than a logo.

There are also other considerations: how much rendering should be on the logo? Do you include a background (like the 2e and 3e logos) to keep it useable against any surface, or do you rely on an outline to make it pop? Do you include color variations (like the new DC Flip?), or do you make your brand identity ideally suited for the logo (running the risk of making everything look to "homogeneous")?

There are so many variables to consider!
 

S

Sunseeker

Guest
And the reason I didn't put in 17 different choices so that you could pick your favorite, is becuase I was looking for the ideas of what folks think is "iconic" to a D&D logo. I've seen way to many discussions about whether it should have a sword in the logo, whether the ampersand as a dragon is important, etc. I thought it would be interesting to get some numbers to go along with the discussions.

Does that make sense?

Not really. Asking me what the most important part of the D&D logo is is kinda like asking me what my favorite part of my favorite painting is, or what my favorite part of a car-engine is. I really can't tell you because the way I appreciate the peice is as part of the larger whole. The Mona Lisa's smile on it's own isn't particularly deep, the way Picasasso does eyes doesn't do much outside the scope of his paintings.

The Dragon Ampersand is important...but only so much in the context of the image. The ampersand from #1 wouldn't work in #2, the one in #5 wouldn't fit with #3. It's important but ONLY when put in the context of the whole image.
The sword? I loved the sword in 3e, but 4e dropped the sword and I didn't even notice much less mind. And in fact, NONE of the designs presented actually have one in it.
A "hard, aggressive look" can mean a lot of things to a lot of people.
I would say, 1, 8, 11, 16 as well as the 3.x logo all have a "hard, aggressive look" to them, but each one in a very different way that only really appears when you consider the image and even then it might depend on the context in which that image is considered.
"It must be red" has issues for a few minor reasons, though it's really the ONLY poll question that gives actual feedback on how the D&D logo should look. When people think of their ideas D&D logo, they will either answer "yes" it must be red, or "no", it should be some other color.
And finally, a "retro look" is pretty subjective too, who's defining "retro"? Is it the 70's? 80's? 90's? Something else entirely? What aspect of those areas are you using? Gamers? Are we assuming tabletop? Arcade? Books even?

This "poll" would be better set up as a checkbox poll, with more explicit options.
"What are the most important aspects of the D&D logo?"
A: the dragon ampersand
B: a sword
C: red color
D: design
E: backboard

Then people could choose say, 4/5 options to get a REAL idea of not only what the whole finds to be the most important elements, but also an idea of what each specific voter chose. You'd get your numbers on it, but you'd also get an idea of how important each specific element is not just on it's own merits, but as a part of a larger, complete D&D logo.
 

Klaus

First Post
Not really. Asking me what the most important part of the D&D logo is is kinda like asking me what my favorite part of my favorite painting is, or what my favorite part of a car-engine is. I really can't tell you because the way I appreciate the peice is as part of the larger whole. The Mona Lisa's smile on it's own isn't particularly deep, the way Picasasso does eyes doesn't do much outside the scope of his paintings.

The Dragon Ampersand is important...but only so much in the context of the image. The ampersand from #1 wouldn't work in #2, the one in #5 wouldn't fit with #3. It's important but ONLY when put in the context of the whole image.
The sword? I loved the sword in 3e, but 4e dropped the sword and I didn't even notice much less mind. And in fact, NONE of the designs presented actually have one in it.
A "hard, aggressive look" can mean a lot of things to a lot of people.
I would say, 1, 8, 11, 16 as well as the 3.x logo all have a "hard, aggressive look" to them, but each one in a very different way that only really appears when you consider the image and even then it might depend on the context in which that image is considered.
"It must be red" has issues for a few minor reasons, though it's really the ONLY poll question that gives actual feedback on how the D&D logo should look. When people think of their ideas D&D logo, they will either answer "yes" it must be red, or "no", it should be some other color.
And finally, a "retro look" is pretty subjective too, who's defining "retro"? Is it the 70's? 80's? 90's? Something else entirely? What aspect of those areas are you using? Gamers? Are we assuming tabletop? Arcade? Books even?

This "poll" would be better set up as a checkbox poll, with more explicit options.
"What are the most important aspects of the D&D logo?"
A: the dragon ampersand
B: a sword
C: red color
D: design
E: backboard

Then people could choose say, 4/5 options to get a REAL idea of not only what the whole finds to be the most important elements, but also an idea of what each specific voter chose. You'd get your numbers on it, but you'd also get an idea of how important each specific element is not just on it's own merits, but as a part of a larger, complete D&D logo.
As with most art, logo design begins with an instinctive "hunch". There's no formula beyond getting the pieces and arranging them again and again until it starts "feeling right". That's when you start the technical "troubleshooting" (printing it really small to check readability, for instance).

But this early in the process, you want to check for what makes a D&D logo "seem" D&D. And to me, that's a dragon ampersand.
 

Scribble

First Post
He's polling about the most basic gut instinct starting point though, not about how the logo should look overall.

If your answer is the ampersand, that's a starting point. It doesn't matter if another logo looks better without it, because your gut instinct response says those logos aren't D&D despite how good they might look. For it to FEEL D&D it HAS to start with the idea that the ampersand needs to be in it, so it HAS to look good with the ampersand.
 

Ainamacar

Adventurer
You know, I like 5, 7, and 9 the best, and in that order. They all strike me as very clean. I have some comments about them, but one thing to keep in mind is that I'm colorblind. How bad? Until late in high school I thought giraffes were green. I found out otherwise in an incredibly embarrassing fashion. :blush: :)

I like 5 the best overall. The thing that bothers me most about it are the "N"s. They look like pi, and when I look at it I almost want to say "Dupgeops and Dragops". For whatever reason the dots in the "O"s are fine, despite the resemblance to capital theta. I prefer the dots in the "O"s to be just a little more substantial or else not present, although maybe this would conflict with the lighter typeface. I like the upper and lower lines which set the vertical extent of the text. The ampersand is conveniently placed so that it is clearly part of the read text, although I don't mind it off to the side either. I would want to play around with the lettering so the offset between the letters of the top and bottom isn't quite so distinct. That is, both lines end with "ONS" but the offset between them isn't pleasing to my eye. If the top is meant to be centered with "& DRAGONS" my eye doesn't catch it, and sees the asymmetry instead. Working a bit with the ampersand and/or the tracking could probably fix this. Finally, I love the stylized ampersand with the breath weapon. Love it. You should pass on kudos to Emi for that alone. I like its appearance in all of 1, 5, 9 and 12.

I think 7 is a close second, and I do dig the dull metallic look that almost has a shape like the edges of a sword with a very small fuller, which I find quite appropriate. There is some danger of reminding the viewer of brushed metal, which has fallen into disfavor since its overuse in the mid 2000s, but for lettering I'm not sure it's such an issue. The lettering isn't as distinctly readable as 5 is to my eye, but I'm not quite sure why that's the case. It may be as simple as the lesser contrast from the white background. The dividing line is also nice, and has a clear inheritance from the 3e and 4e logos, although I think I prefer the version in 5. I miss the breath weapon on the ampersand. Adding a dull red breath weapon that caused a reddish glint on the parts of the letters which "face" the ampersand might be very cool, assuming it could be done so the metallic/red contrast wasn't distracting. A non-red breath weapon might be more appropriate in that case. A tough call.

The last one I quite like is 9, which is probably closest to the current 4e logo. The very small kerning for "DU" and "NS" is distracting for me, and doesn't give the letters the whitespace present in the current logo, which I think is important for readability. I again like the stylized breath-weapon ampersand, and especially its more prominent role in the logo. I think I miss both the dividing lines and the dots in the "O"s.

I'm really enjoying these articles, Jon, and it's heartening to see you on these forums as well.

If there is an "iconic" artist for 5e I'd like to put in another vote for Komarck. After viewing his images I almost always wish I could zoom in to see the details better, and zoom out to answer the questions the image raises. For fantasy art it's hard to ask for more. The illos of the Gith are pretty amazing. And the cover to Dungeonscape is fantastic. In particular, that is the best beholder I think I've seen anywhere. It's not silly, it's terrifying, and for the beholder that can be quite a feat.

I'd also like to see more Justin Sweet. His character portraits for Icewind Dale 2 are my favorite in any fantasy game. They are grim and contemplative, which I find a nice change of pace to the endlessly posturing badass that is more typical. I reuse those images all the time. I'm also partial to stuff like this. His works tend to be more somber and dreamlike, as others have mentioned, but he can really nail those qualities. I'd love to see his interpretation of some of the lower planes.
 
Last edited:

Ratskinner

Adventurer
And the reason I didn't put in 17 different choices so that you could pick your favorite, is becuase I was looking for the ideas of what folks think is "iconic" to a D&D logo. I've seen way to many discussions about whether it should have a sword in the logo, whether the ampersand as a dragon is important, etc. I thought it would be interesting to get some numbers to go along with the discussions.

Does that make sense?

I think so. I voted for the "Dragon amp", but honestly its not a deal breaker for me either way. If it helps any, I like the logo to be clean, clear, and readable. The 3e logo was the worst for this, but fit with the cover designs for the whole series, so it wasn't atrocious. If 5e is shooting for a unifying fresh start...I think the logo should reflect that through its look. How it does that is up to you guys. :)
 

Kannik

Hero
What a great idea, a great way to ply new ground and try out different things in a context that allows one to fail spectacularly (for what it may eventually be) yet still move forward and discover something new.

Like #17 -- I love that logo, the cleanliness of it, the spareness of it, and such a matter-of-fact and slickness about it that is in opposition to the fantasy and unpredictability of both dungeons and dragons. I would not want this to become the logo for D&D, but I love it!

#10 is also great for the similar simplicity. And it could be re-created with whatever font is eventually chosen for the final logo. I could see either of those two at the top of some sheet handed out to players, DMs, in conventions, something, where the page contains something awesome yet so understated by the simple logo at the top. :)

I also like #9 for its throwback design, #4 for its playfulness, #5 for its solid visual impact and #11 for its aggressiveness.

Of all of these, if one were to become the new logo (which I know it isn't :p) I would choose either #9 or #5. (#11 alas I think has a bit too much suggestiveness in its style and character for a game that wants to promote and allow for lots of different styles of play) And then I would keep a couple of other logos in my back pocket for certain products or releases... like #4 as stated in the article for young players and for more lighthearted fare.

peace,

Kannik
 


Status
Not open for further replies.
Remove ads

Top