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D&D rules bloat
- Thread starter Allensh
- Start date
Erywin
First Post
To some extent yes, but I find the rules generally more malleable and easier to comprehend. Maybe its not the core rules, just all the supplementary stuff, like the amount of different things skill checks can be used for. Wish they would come out with a Skills/Feat compendium *begs*
Cheers,
E
Cheers,
E
frankthedm
First Post
The thing is the 3e system started pretty bloated with rules to cover the majority of situations. In 3rd the supplement bloat is from character options, rather than rule tack-ons.
Flynn
First Post
I believe we are moving steadily in that direction, and I think it's a natural progression of WOTC's original development plan for 3E.
It was my understanding, based on comments made by Monte Cook and others, that the original plan with the release of 3E was to wait five years, release v3.5, then wait five years and release 4E. Even though v3.5 got moved up two years to 2003, the five year plan for v3.5 to 4E is still probably viable. That plan laid out books and developmental directions for covering the range of v3.5 products before 4E would be released. Even if WOTC got creative and added to the scheme, I still think we're in the latter half of that plan.
Now, WOTC won't do anything regarding 4E without making an announcement about it first, in order to build anticipation and win over buyers. The strategy I've always heard bandied about was a year's warning. I imagine that we'll hear something about 4E by Gen Con Indy 2008, if not sooner, with a release approximately 6-12 months after the announcement (and probably closer to 12 months).
If not, then I can see something akin to 2nd Edition's Player's Option rules set, a last ditch v3.75 effort released under some other label. It very well could be a D&D Saga Edition, if the Star Wars product is well received. If that happens, I think we'll have about 2-3 years after that before we see 4E on the horizon.
The rules are quite bloated and getting moreso all the time, with each new splatbook. It's only a matter of time before we see the next Player's Option/v3.75/D&D Saga Edition/4E version revealed at some big gaming convention.
At least, that's my opinion, based on the rules bloat I've noticed.
Of course, I've been totally wrong about things before, and it wouldn't hurt my feelings to be wrong about this, too.
With Regards,
Flynn
It was my understanding, based on comments made by Monte Cook and others, that the original plan with the release of 3E was to wait five years, release v3.5, then wait five years and release 4E. Even though v3.5 got moved up two years to 2003, the five year plan for v3.5 to 4E is still probably viable. That plan laid out books and developmental directions for covering the range of v3.5 products before 4E would be released. Even if WOTC got creative and added to the scheme, I still think we're in the latter half of that plan.
Now, WOTC won't do anything regarding 4E without making an announcement about it first, in order to build anticipation and win over buyers. The strategy I've always heard bandied about was a year's warning. I imagine that we'll hear something about 4E by Gen Con Indy 2008, if not sooner, with a release approximately 6-12 months after the announcement (and probably closer to 12 months).
If not, then I can see something akin to 2nd Edition's Player's Option rules set, a last ditch v3.75 effort released under some other label. It very well could be a D&D Saga Edition, if the Star Wars product is well received. If that happens, I think we'll have about 2-3 years after that before we see 4E on the horizon.
The rules are quite bloated and getting moreso all the time, with each new splatbook. It's only a matter of time before we see the next Player's Option/v3.75/D&D Saga Edition/4E version revealed at some big gaming convention.
At least, that's my opinion, based on the rules bloat I've noticed.
Of course, I've been totally wrong about things before, and it wouldn't hurt my feelings to be wrong about this, too.
With Regards,
Flynn
Jefe Bergenstein
Legend
No. There are the same number of rules. Its just in 3rd edition, the designers were smart enough to write them down rather than requiring the DM to make them up on the fly.
The Souljourner
First Post
I don't really think it's rules bloat. There really aren't many new rules (swift and immediate actions being about it). There are new abilities and new concepts, but very few new rules.
What is happening, is player options bloat, and to a lesser extent, DM options bloat. PCs have something on the order of 20 books to look through when looking for feats, PrCs, spells, and other options. DMs have four monster manuals, a few more specific books with monsters, plus campaign setting books... all of a sudden you have to mark every feat, monster, or unusual ability with the book and page name just to figure out what something can do.
I love all the options... I love all the neat spells that do interesting things (more than just the PHB's blast type I, blast type II, utility type I, utility type II), and love all the monsters that do weird and wacky stuff that the players don't automatically know all the abilities and weaknesses of.
I think the Spell Compendium was a huge boon to players and DMs alike, since it consolidated all those small lists of spells into one place where they can easily be referenced. The Magic Item compendium has a similar effect, with some extra added goodness of new items (I'm not quite a clear on if it contains all the magic items of all previous splat books, but it looks pretty convincing). I'd love to see a Feat Compendium and a Prestige Class Compendium. Then maybe I'd be able to go to D&D without having to rent a U-Haul to carry all my books.
But rules bloat? Nah, no way.
-Nate
What is happening, is player options bloat, and to a lesser extent, DM options bloat. PCs have something on the order of 20 books to look through when looking for feats, PrCs, spells, and other options. DMs have four monster manuals, a few more specific books with monsters, plus campaign setting books... all of a sudden you have to mark every feat, monster, or unusual ability with the book and page name just to figure out what something can do.
I love all the options... I love all the neat spells that do interesting things (more than just the PHB's blast type I, blast type II, utility type I, utility type II), and love all the monsters that do weird and wacky stuff that the players don't automatically know all the abilities and weaknesses of.
I think the Spell Compendium was a huge boon to players and DMs alike, since it consolidated all those small lists of spells into one place where they can easily be referenced. The Magic Item compendium has a similar effect, with some extra added goodness of new items (I'm not quite a clear on if it contains all the magic items of all previous splat books, but it looks pretty convincing). I'd love to see a Feat Compendium and a Prestige Class Compendium. Then maybe I'd be able to go to D&D without having to rent a U-Haul to carry all my books.
But rules bloat? Nah, no way.
-Nate
el-remmen
Moderator Emeritus
It is only bloated if you feel you have to use it all (or even a sizeable percentage of it).
If not, then it merely offers a lot of options for the myriad of styles and approaches to D&D that people are playing out there. Some people want it, and others (like me) are happy to ignore the vast majority past the core rules.
If not, then it merely offers a lot of options for the myriad of styles and approaches to D&D that people are playing out there. Some people want it, and others (like me) are happy to ignore the vast majority past the core rules.
There are character options but the rules are pretty much the same. If the player has a new feat, he has to know how his new feat works. If the dm is trying a new spell, he can read it before he uses it. But spellcasting itself hasn't changed, grapple is still grapple, I'm still rolling 4d6 drop 1 for my stats....etc.
