D&D Video Gaming News - Hasbro sues for breach of contact by Atari

[Derren]

I could go over your post and point out all the things where you apparently have not actually read what was written or otherwise talk about a completely different subject.
But I won't. Read this thread again, maybe then you will find out what NDS tactical games have to do with it, what the D&D flops where and why combat would take too long.

 

[Dragonblade]

The D&D name is worth something in the videogame market. If you think otherwise, I'm sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about.

Everyone who knows of Baldur's Gate, along with Neverwinter Nights, also knows these are D&D games. EVERYONE. And by everyone, I refer to the entire videogame playing population. I've never heard of anyone playing those games that didn't associate them with D&D.

Furthermore, I have never heard of any non-D&D players associating those games more strongly with the Forgotten Realms brand, than with the D&D brand. Any talk about the Realms being unsuited for videogaming due to 4e changes in the setting is absurd. Non tabletop videogame players don't know or care about obscure FR canon issues. Thats all obscure edition war nerd rage BS that only hardcore tabletop people like us even care about.

Also, those games all tweaked the system in their own way in order to facilitate real time combat. 4e can be modded to be real time if needed, although I think that would be a mistake. A well done D&D tactics style game where you can make your own characters, especially if it supported multi-player on the same screen, and/or online would sell like crazy.

Heck, D&D Heroes and the Dark Alliance series only made a token nod to the actual pen and paper rules and those games sold like crazy. I know people at work that organized console gaming parties specifically to get everyone together to play four player D&D Heroes. And these were people that wouldn't be caught dead playing the tabletop version. The assertion that a D&D videogame would only appeal to the market segment of videogame players that also play the pen and paper RPG is laughable. Anytime there is news on a new D&D videogame its a major news item on pretty much every major game site like IGN.

About 20 co-workers at my office all pre-ordered Dragon Age, none of them play pen and paper D&D, and frequently makes jokes about the people who do play it (I keep my hobby a secret). But interestingly enough, ALL of them talk about how they loved Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate, or wish there would be a new D&D Heroes game. They don't know anything about the Realms and they think tabletop RPGs are too geeky, but they love D&D videogames. In fact, one co-worker described the game to another by saying its "like D&D" and he knew instantly what that meant. Neither of them know anything about the tabletop version.

Now that, is some serious brand power. The D&D name has a mass appeal that far transcends the pen and paper RPG. Now thats not to say the name alone can overcome a crappy game, but like another poster said, just having the D&D name means your game will get attention from the videogame media that a comparable non-D&D branded game would not.

 

[Derren]

The typical video game RPG player would play this sort of game quite happily - they'd play such a game without the D&D name, after all.

Please tell me a few recent, well recieved, turn based RPGs with a combat system approaching the complexity of 4E.

So make it a turn-based strategy game - use the 4e system to the fullest.

That wouldn't sell well. Too complicated. Combats would take too long.

I realise that I probably won't be able to convince you, since you seem to hate 4e so much, but I don't want this game from the point of view of wanting a D&D game - I just think the system would work well as a video game.

It would work well for a tactical, turn based game. problem is, those games don't sell and the D&D license is likely too expensive to experiment with it.

I might be underestimating the value of the D&D name, but that name has been used for some rather bad games, so it does not carry the "must buy" value other franchises do. A new "Neverwinter Nights" or "Baldurs Gate" will draw more attention than another "D&D" game. But I don't think changeing the core system of a IP is viable. NWN players want the game to be like NWN with some modifications, and not a totally different game for a, for them, obscure reason.

 

[Amadeus Windfall]

Read this thread again, maybe then you will find out what NDS tactical games have to do with it, what the D&D flops where and why combat would take too long.

Actually, I don't see you (or anyone really) saying what DS tactical RPGs have to do with it. I certainly don't think combat would take too long. Compared to other tactical RPGs, you'd have very few "units" in a D&D game, and considering how combats in actual pen-and-paper games of 4e don't always take that long, I can't imagine that the combat would be too long in a video game, where there's no people rolling, doing maths in their head, double-checking if they have any extra abilities they can use (since the game would prompt this) or asking "Is an 18 a hit?".

 

[Mad Mac]

Please tell me a few recent, well recieved, turn based RPGs with a combat system approaching the complexity of 4E.

You haven't played Disgaea, have you? And if you tell me that series doesn't sell I may have to throw something.

Also, pretty much any PC RPG you can name, whether they be turn-based or real time has an excruciatingly complicated combat system.

I mean seriously, Dragons Age is not a simple game. Baldurs Gate was not a simple game on any level. FF 12 is a game with many layers, especially when you start fiddling with Gambits.

4th edition by the standards of computer games is by no means excessively complicated or obtuse. You're just throwing out opinions with no apparent rationale whatsoever.

 

[Xath]

Derren and Shemeska complaining about 4e fluff?

Well isn't that a surprise. Geez, I know you guys hate it with a passion, but there are people here who actually like the changes to the fluff of the setting(s).

Please refrain from making personal attacks.

- Xath

EDIT: That goes for everyone, not just AllisterH.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Derren is completely, 100% incorrect.

Not only would a D&D game sell, and not only would a turn based game sell, but combining the two would bring even MORE profits.

Turn-based games are a freaking goldmine on the DS and PSP. Dungeons and Dragons has huge following amongst RPG gamers.

For someone whining that "your love of 4e is blinding you," I think Derren is being blinded by exactly the opposite. Your 4e hatred is covering your eyes there, man. A 4e turn based game would get rather nice profits.

 

[Derren]

Not only would a D&D game sell, and not only would a turn based game sell, but combining the two would bring even MORE profits.

Turn-based games are a freaking goldmine on the DS and PSP. Dungeons and Dragons has huge following amongst RPG gamers.

And based on what do you come to this conclusion?
The less than stellar reviews and sales of some D&D games (TOEE, D&D Tactics, Dragonshard, DDO), showing that D&D is not a "must buy" brand, or the small number of turn based games coming out and only on handhelds while there was practically no turn based RPG title (without real time combat) on any major plattform for years (Maybe a Front Mission, but see next paragraph)?
Or is it that all the tactical turn based rpgs on handhelds having a lot simpler combat mechanics than 4E has with its eventual 10+ powers per character with different recharge timers, trigger, hit&miss effects, pushing, shifting, teleporting, marks, etc?

What would work is a tactical RPG, similar to Bahamut Lagoon, Front Mission, etc. But as that is just a series of combats where you can equip your characters between battles I don't consider them real RPGs. But even that won't happen, as they are (nearly?) exclusively made by asian studios which haven't shown any interest in D&D.

It comes down to having a western IP best (but not overly much) suited for a more JRPG like game. Chance of that happening is very low.
Unless of course the combat system is changed radically, more than the 3E system was to make it VG mainstream compatible.
And then there is of course the question who would make such a game. Atari is out after the lawsuit as in Bandai and EA has its own IP. That were the big RPG companies. Bethesda's RPGs are not very similar to D&D and also has its own IP. Square/Enix has its Final Fantasy and probably no real interest in an western IP. Whats left from the big ones are Activision/Blizzard and Ubisoft which both don't produce RPGs apart from WoW. And I doubt any smaller publisher or company without publisher can pay for the D&D license. They rather take a cheap russion novel IP and cobble together a system for it (happens quite often).
The best thing you likely can hope for is a action game with D&D flavour like Dark Alliance.

But when you are soo conviced that D&D is a huge brand in the VG industry, then the news of the Lawsuit must have created huge waves. Would you kindly link me to any of those huge discussion on a VG website debating about it?

 

[Pour]

!

*cackles from the shadows* Your hate has made you POWERFUL!

Oh, meaningful contribution, right, right... I would actually like to forgo the FR and Eberrron settings and just go directly to Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Planescape, Spelljammer for the next game. Even better, shock the community and introduce the rumored new setting in video game format FIRST, then in hardcovers! Who knows, maybe that'll draw more people to the shelves.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

And based on what do you come to this conclusion?
The less than stellar reviews and sales of some D&D games (TOEE, D&D Tactics, Dragonshard, DDO), showing that D&D is not a "must buy" brand, or the small number of turn based games coming out and only on handhelds while there was practically no turn based RPG title (without real time combat) on any major plattform for years (Maybe a Front Mission, but see next paragraph)?

ToEE was bad because it was hilariously buggy. I've never heard of D&D Tactics, so there's it's flaw right there. Same with Dragonshard. DDO sold poorly because there was almost no D&D in it.

Or is it that all the tactical turn based rpgs on handhelds having a lot simpler combat mechanics than 4E has with its eventual 10+ powers per character with different recharge timers, trigger, hit&miss effects, pushing, shifting, teleporting, marks, etc?

Simple mechanics...have you played a video game in the last twenty years? Like, any video game? At all?

Blah blah blah blah blah

Dude, your entire argument is "I hate 4e so much guys, so very much!"

Seriously.

We get it.