D&D Video Gaming News - Hasbro sues for breach of contact by Atari

[AllisterH]

Sure it didn't do ODST numbers, but it wasn't expected to. You can't compare it to ODST, you need to compare it to other games of it's genre, and it was, bar none, the fastest selling console RTS that's been made. And even past that, it was a huge financial success compared to other games, like Killzone 2.

Halo Wars was an incredible success, and I have no doubt that it was in no small part due to it's license.

Well yeah, I agree with you there.

If Halo Wars didn't have two things going for it.

1. The IP
2. Being regarded as GOOD to DECENT (its metacritic rating is 82%- very close to Dragonshard's 79.5% rating)

IT certainly wouldn't have as sales in the million figure range. Dropping either one from the equation and I doubt the game gets even half those numbers.

But the original assertion from Derren was that Dragonshard is an example of how the D&D license isn't as valuable.

My point was that Dragonshard, being a RTS game, certainly shouldn't be held to the same standards as a D&D RPG since, like Halo, people tend to assoicate the franchise with a certain type of gaming.

 

[Thistonius]

I could go over your post and point out all the things where you apparently have not actually read what was written or otherwise talk about a completely different subject.
But I won't. Read this thread again, maybe then you will find out what NDS tactical games have to do with it, what the D&D flops where and why combat would take too long.

Hmm.. you took a point then whined? wow..

Not to be funny, but, you are only saying the stuff about 4E because you hate the system with a passion. ( I did my research and went back and read several of your posts about anti-4E).

I'm sure that, if this had another system then you would be all over it saying how fantastic it would be. So, i'm not going to bother replying to your posts anymore since you are so dead set in your mind that it cannot be changed.

On a last note, go and look at the old bioware interviews for NWN. You'll find that they had to modify over 50% of the 3E/3.5E rules to make it into the game they wanted.

Thanks

Thisto

 

[evileeyore]

If you wouldn't be so blinded by your love for 4E you might actually recognize that the VG market can't be compared to 20 years ago, when turn based games still sold well, and that the name "D&D" doesn't have much impact there because of some very mixed games which were directly marketed with the "D&D" label (Dragonshard, DDO), while the good games are known by their own name (Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights)

I hates D&D and even I can see the glaring flaws in your arguments.


The game industry (both VG and TT) can certianly be compared to twenty years ago. Whilst there is not as great a percentage of the market now as there was then for turn based games, they certianly still have a great following (just look at all of us whom still play those old turn based games from yesterday). D&D is the pen and paper King and most gamers are pretty whiling to overlook a previous games flaws if the next one demos and trailers look fabulous.

A 4E game, similar in scope to Neverwinter Nights or Dragon Age must appeal to more people than some D&D Nerds willing to spend 2 hours for each combat.

Funny how NWN and Dragon Age did just that then isn't it. A direct D&D rules port into video gaming and a spiritual succesor to the Balder's Gate series (which itself was a direct D&D rules port into video gaming).

4Es combat system, with all its interrupts and pushing can't.

Yes it can. With pretty minor changes.


See what I did there?

Except for the D&D name (which brings more angry nerds than blind fanboys to the table)...

Speaking of angry nerds...

But you can of course close your eyes and tell yourself that Atari & all otehr publishers are stupid to not make a D&D game cause it will be the best game ever made and will sell billions.

Bitter much?

I could go over your post and point out all the things where you apparently have not actually read what was written or otherwise talk about a completely different subject.

And yet you won't.

I read the post. It countered your points with aplomb.

But I won't.

Of course not.

Read this thread again, maybe then you will find out what NDS tactical games have to do with it, what the D&D flops where and why combat would take too long.

Your pretty much the only one going on about the NDS. Sure, it'd be cool for those Nintendo Console owners out there if a D&D game out for them. But the rest of us would like it for the other systems.




Specifically the PC if some corporate suit type is reading this, 'kay thanx!

 

[Phaezen]

Properly done, a POL game would do very well. As has been recently proved by Dragon Age a compelling if generic pseudo-european campaign setting works well for a crpg. There is an insane amount of fluff for the POL setting in the various books and DDI articles.

As for the ruleset, it will be silly to think that the 4e rules would be copy pasted into a crpg, but would have to be adapted somewhat, as the previous edititoins rules were for Baldurs Gate and Never Winter Nights. THis is hardly a train smash and hardly news. If you look at the recent rules released for the Dragon Age RPG by Green Ronin, they are adapted off the ruleset used by Bioware for the CRPG.

The only thing worth noting is currently there is no news of the Liscence holder, Atari, working on the IP and Hasbro seem to be well within thier rights for being annoyed by it. As for the reasons given by Hasbro, this will obviously need to be investigated and sorted out in a court of law. WHat I would be concerened about from Hasbros POV is that the longer it takes for a new D&D game to come out, the more the IP will fall off the average console and PC gamers radar.

As it stands, I would love to see a new decent crpg for D&D in any setting.

 

[avin]

4E doesn't have any fluff at all

4E core has as much fluff as 3E or 2E. You don't like 4E, we get it, but, please, don't spread false information.

As much as I think 4E fluff is bland, saying it doesn't have fluff is a lie.

By the way: a lot of people who buy a game cause "D&D" logo is in it don't have a clue about what an "edition" is.

I'd love to see a new TOEE like game...

 

[Derren]

Funny how NWN and Dragon Age did just that then isn't it. A direct D&D rules port into video gaming and a spiritual succesor to the Balder's Gate series (which itself was a direct D&D rules port into video gaming).

Of course you take that completely out of context, like everyone else in here, just to argue that your beloved 4E will make a great VG game.

Was Dragon Age Turn based like a true 4E game must be? Was it clear from the complete aregument that this was a important distinction? Yes. Did you still ignore it because if you wouldn't you couldn't defend your beloved 4E? Obviously.

And with that I am out. I am tired of repeating the same points over and over because people take everything out of context because they otherwise can't think of counter arguments and don't even try to explain how they come to their conclusion that "4E turn based game sell good 111!!1".

And then there are people who endlessly repeat their mantra without actually thinking what it actually means. "TOEE was bad because of bugs!", as if that somehow negates the "damage" a bad game does to the IP.

Edit: Banned from thread. - Xath

 

[Mad Mac]

As far as Dragonshard goes, I was a beta tester/fansite operator for that game. It had potential, but Atari completely pulled funding for the game during beta which is why it had zero support/marketing/patching and sold poorly despite decent reviews. They also had a huge blunder with launching an open multiplayer beta using the earliest most buggy beta build of the game.

Disgaea is awesome, Disgaea sells like crazy, but I'm not sure that it's turn-based system has anything approaching the level of complexity as 4e's rules. But at the same time, I'm not sure that any turn-based CRPG approaches the level of complexity as any table top game, be it 4e, 3e, 2e, etc. And even when they might use a particular D&D ruleset, it's often quite opaque to players that it's even using said tactical ruleset.

The mechanics of edition probably matter little for a turn-based CRPG that would use D&D rules.

It's quite complex in it's own way, with the throwing/merging/zoning/combos/cascading color chains ect.

Really though, I think you're overestimating the complexity of tabletop games compared to video games quite a bit. Video Game combat systems are rarely straightforward and usually involve all sorts of hidden computations.

That said, developers were making turn based D&D games even back in the gold box days. It's nothing new and hardly unworkable regardless of edition.

Turn-based vs Real Time is almost entirely a matter of preference though. Some would prefer one or the other, but either is workable using 4th edition rules, with some possible fudging required, same as any other edition of D&D.

 

[AllisterH]

re: Bad games damaging to IPs.

I give you Batman: Arkham Asylum.

Without fail, in pretty much 25 years of gaming, only Superman has been associated with as much suck as Batman.

It seemed like it was impossible to get a good Batman game but now?

Batman: Arkham Asylum is considered the greatest superhero videogame of all time. (personally, I think the fact that Batman sucked so badly in the past actually HELPED the reviews of Arkham Asylum as reviewers were constantly comparing it to the past Batman games. Really, I think both Prototype and Infamous were done better especially with regard to the Boss battles)

re: Atari

Atari doesn't have as much competence when it comes to managing studios it seems.

Apparently, Bioware never had a problem working with Interplay or WOTC/Hasbro beforehand. Indeed, when BG1 first came out, I distinctly remember Bioware thanking WOTC personnel for all the help that they provided..Similarly, Bioware was in sync with Black Isle Studios as many people forget that it was BIS that came out with Icewind Dale and Planescape:Torment.

However, Bioware has said working with Atari has been "different" than working with BIS/Interplay.

 

[rjdafoe]

Yes, NWNs and even Dragon Age combat is technically turn based. But they can be played in real time and that is the important part. 4Es combat system, with all its interrupts and pushing can't.

Not true at all. All it that has to be done is what every D&D game has done before it, make the decision for you. The power gets changed to only push, or one random person in the party gets the bonus, or you select in an interface your perferences to override like this character gets any bonus I give, etc. Very much like Dragon Age for the NPCs behavior stuff.

Not hard at all.

 

[Baron Opal]

Why would anyone make a D&D game anyway now?

And as disadvantages you have Hasbro/WotC meddleing with the development. Not to mention that the 4E combat system is hard to do in a real time way.

Because a D&D game would sell on name alone, there is by far sufficient fluff to create a set of scenarios around and I think real time games suck? I want a turn based game. My job gives me enough time-based pressure already, I would like to relax with my entertainments.