D&D with Abstract Combat

[LoneWolf23]

Ok, I play D&D online with some friends of mine. For one thing, that makes the use of a miniatures system impractical, if not impossible.

So far, I've been improvising things by guesstimating character positions and distances, and BESMd20 has a good Abstract Combat system I can use, at least. But I was curious if anyone else's come up with something like an Abstract Combat System for D&D/D20..

 

[brun]

I don't think I understand what you mean by abstract. I always thought that D&D was pretty abstract as is, with hit points armor class that take into account a LOT of things (character stamina, training, absorbing hits, diminishigs the severity of wounds and all...) and without a specefic hit location system, or wounds penalty system.

So, tell me, how is BESMd20 more abstract than that?

And playing online doesn't really rule out minis, it just makes it less easy/handy. Your DM could always keep track of movement and position. There are even tools specifically designed for maps and position, in regard to sharing these info with others. At the very least, the DM could use paint or whatever, make a grid, make the map, and position everyone. Whenever some important movement occurs, the DM change the positions and send this "updated" version to the players.

 

[Planesdragon]

So far, I've been improvising things by guesstimating character positions and distances, and BESMd20 has a good Abstract Combat system I can use, at least. But I was curious if anyone else's come up with something like an Abstract Combat System for D&D/D20..

Yep. IMC, I use a "engagement" model. Rather than moving along a map, characters "egage" their opponents, and AoO / movement works appropriately.

 

[WizarDru]

I don't think I understand what you mean by abstract. I always thought that D&D was pretty abstract as is, with hit points armor class that take into account a LOT of things (character stamina, training, absorbing hits, diminishigs the severity of wounds and all...) and without a specefic hit location system, or wounds penalty system.

So, tell me, how is BESMd20 more abstract than that?

The difference is that, I'm guessing, many of BESM's powers and abilities are not as dependent on a more tactical/less abstract portrayl of combat. He's saying "figuring out issues like AoOs, cover, flanking and sneak attack eligibility is difficult without a reference map or illustration", and you're saying "hit points are not a literal interpetation of damage and sneak attack is a game mechanic to represent a variety of attack actions". You're not discussing the same thing.

D&D doesn't require a map, but unless you've planned the encounter out ahead of time, it's difficult to do things like movement, coordinated attacking, taking advantage of terrain and group tactics and so forth. It's even more difficult to adjudicate, since the person running it must do all of the work for the players, assuming HE has a map to work from.

 

[Umbran]

Ok, I play D&D online with some friends of mine. For one thing, that makes the use of a miniatures system impractical, if not impossible.

I dunno about that. There are chat-style online game applications like OpenRPG that have mini/mapping capabilities. And play-by-post allows one to use a map posted on a web page.

 

[LoneWolf23]

Like WizardDru pointed out, what I mean by "Abstract" is "without the need for miniatures and movement rules". More like a videogame RPG then a wargame, for exemple.

BESM D20 is a good step in that direction, in that it de-emphasises the use of miniatures in favor of a more abstract positioning. Ranges are calculated in Melee (inside 5-10 feet), Short (up to 30 feet), Medium (up to 300 feet) and Long (1-5 miles).

It also gives the GM the option of whether or not he/she wishes to keep detailed track of movement, ranges and distances or not. If the GM wishes, he can measure ranges in a more abstract fashion, such as "You can reach him in 3 rounds, if you hurry). In situations where character speeds must be compared (such as a race between two 30 move PCs), the GM can rule that winning the iniative check allows for one competitor to get ahead or close distances with his opponent, for exemple.

It's not a perfect system, though. It doesn't give me any ideas as to how to handle Sneak Attacks or Flanking, for exemple. Which is why I'm still open to ideas. Planesdragon's "Engagement" concept seems interesting, however. Care to tell me more?