d(liberation)20 System

[Outergod]

Has anyone seen this classless d20 system? I starting looking at it a couple of days ago and I've got to say that I really like it. I'm looking for people who may have playtested it.

I'm also thinking of using this in conjunction with Ken Hood's Skills-n-Feats Martial Arts and Psionics systems.

Any comments, suggestions, etc.?

Thanks,
Outergod

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

I printed it out and read it and found that it seemed to make d20 too complicated, at least for me. I want point buy character creation, but prefer the more user-friendly CCE (Class Construction Engine) by Khepri. You can download a copy of it from http://www.community3e.com

 

[poilbrun]

Could you tell me where the CCE is located?

BTW, I tend to agree with you, those rules are overly complicated. Whereas I like customization, I like the sense of belonging to a class that the D&D system brings...

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Khepri's Class Construction Engine (CCE) is about halfway down this page on community3e.com

http://www.community3e.com/class.html

 

[Outergod]

I printed it out and read it and found that it seemed to make d20 too complicated, at least for me. I want point buy character creation, but prefer the more user-friendly CCE (Class Construction Engine) by Khepri. You can download a copy of it from http://www.community3e.com

You're right...it can get a little complicated for the non-hardcore player. I always keep the option of creating a standard class for any player...plus...there's no way I'm creating 40 orcs with the d(liberation) 20 system. I use standard classes for NPC (except for very special NPCs), monsters, and player who don't like the more complicated rules.

I also like the CCE...looks like I'm going to have to pick one...

I'm still looking for feedback by anyone who's playtested this.

Outergod

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

I took one look at it and decided NOT to playtest it, LOL!
Makes my head swim just looking at it...

WHY I PREFER THE CCE:
CCE is just used to create a class, then you're done with it and just advance normally as per 3e rules. No need to ever consult it again, unlike d(liberation)20, which requires you to consult it at creation and every time you level...

 

[Outergod]

I took one look at it and decided NOT to playtest it, LOL!
Makes my head swim just looking at it...

WHY I PREFER THE CCE:
CCE is just used to create a class, then you're done with it and just advance normally as per 3e rules. No need to ever consult it again, unlike d(liberation)20, which requires you to consult it at creation and every time you level...

True, but the CCE is a little looser and more open to interpretation, containing things like, "Major Power is +X points" leaving the user to determine the power's point value. That said, it's still very cool.

Outergod

 

[CRGreathouse]

The CCE may not be as easily abusable as its 2E counterpart, but it's still easily abusable... I made a sample clas with 240 points (below average) that is amazingly powerful: spellcasting, barbarian HD, monk saves, fighter BAB, fighter bonus feats, and more. I called it the "Holy Warrior" and gave it class skills and spellcasting from a theme (not just munched-out choices).

BTW, it has no alignment restrictions and was built with about 15 fewer points than the paladin.

******************

The CCE has other problems. For example, the wizard's bonus feats at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20 are worth *less* individually than Scribe Scroll; the nearly-worthless Simple Weapon Proficiency is worth 2 fighter bonus feats!

 

[Outergod]

The CCE may not be as easily abusable as its 2E counterpart, but it's still easily abusable... I made a sample clas with 240 points (below average) that is amazingly powerful: spellcasting, barbarian HD, monk saves, fighter BAB, fighter bonus feats, and more. I called it the "Holy Warrior" and gave it class skills and spellcasting from a theme (not just munched-out choices).

BTW, it has no alignment restrictions and was built with about 15 fewer points than the paladin.

******************

The CCE has other problems. For example, the wizard's bonus feats at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20 are worth *less* individually than Scribe Scroll; the nearly-worthless Simple Weapon Proficiency is worth 2 fighter bonus feats!

I hear ya CR! I did something similar. Although it would be nice to play with some of the classes you can create with the CCE I don't think they'd be exactly balanced. Even the d(liberation)20 system has a few things that I think might be exploitable but I'm I'm going to keep my mouth shut about them until I can actually get some time to playtest. Overall, I think I like d(lib) better because you have fully quantified skills and feats.

Outergod

 

[CRGreathouse]

Here's my abuse of the CCE (first try, BTW; I'm sure I could get better at beating the system after using it a while):

Holy Warrior
HD: d12
BAB: As fighter
Good saves: Fort, Ref, and Will
Proficiencies: Light armor, simple weapons, martial weapons
Skill Points per level: 4 + Int mod
Code of honor
Multiclass restriction
Class skills: Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge (religion), Listen, Ride, Spot, Tumble
Special: code of honor, multiclass restriction, fighter bonus feats (1st level and every even level)
Spells:
1 - cure light wounds, divine favor, endure elements
2 - bull's strength, cat's grace, undetectable alignment
3 - dispel magic, greater magic weapon, prayer
4 - divination, holy sword, spell immunity
5 - healing circle, mark of justice, righteous might

Divine Spells:
Level	1	2	3	4	5
1	–	–	–	–	–
2	–	–	–	–	–
3	–	–	–	–	–
4	–	–	–	–	–
5	–	–	–	–	–
6	–	–	–	–	–
7	–	–	–	–	–
8	–	–	–	–	–
9	2	–	–	–	–
10	3	–	–	–	–
11	3	2	–	–	–
12	4	3	–	–	–
13	4	3	2	–	–
14	4	4	3	–	–
15	4	4	3	2	–
16	4	4	4	3	–
17	4	4	4	3	2
18	4	4	4	4	3
19	4	4	4	4	3
20	4	4	4	4	4

Point breakdown:
Cause: points/total points

d12 HD: 50/50
Weapon proficiencies: 25/75
Armor proficiency: 10/85
10 class skills: 10/95
4 base skill points: 30/125
Fighter BAB: 50/175
Code of Honor: -15/160
Multiclass restriction: -10/150
Spell capability: 10/160
Limited spell list: -10/150
Spellcasting starts at level 8: -20/130
20 divine spells at level 20: 20/150
Monk saves: 35/185
11 bonus feats: 55/240

If I really wanted to make the class bad, I'd add an alignment restriction (-10) and drop the Simple Weapon Proficiency for a bonus feat at 1st level (like Simple Weapon Proficiency) (-10/+5) for a total of 15 points; this would give the class "divine grace" per the paladin ability and perhaps another bonus feat (at level 5, I guess).