D20 Extra info?

[Krispy]

I bough DB and downloaded the D20 SRD, but I can't find info on awarding out XP. I looked around and found out that this is omitted from the SRD because it's product-specific (like Beholders). Unfortunately, I do not own the 3.5 ed. rulebooks, so I can't actually play DB yet.
Am I missing something?
Is it possible for TOGC to provide DB-specific replacements for the missing info? (apparently experience levels, among other things, are omitted too)
DB look really great though.

Cheers,
Krispy

 

[Morrus]

It's not in there because the d20 System Gaming License specifcially prohibits character generation and advancement to be detailed. In other words, WotC has said "Here is our ruleset and logo for free; feel free to use it to develop your game, but in return for giving you this, it needs to be necessary for someone to buy our PHB".

So, in short, TPGC can't provide that information; you'll have to buy the PHB.

 

[Krispy]

Oh, ok, i guess that makes sense. Bummer.
Unfortunately, the missing info is acutally spread over both (if i'm not mistaken) the PHB and the DMG , which (if you're not into RPGs), pushes the cost of DB to around $70 instead of $15.
I can borrow the 3rd ed. PHB and DMG from a freind, can I find the info in there? or was something changed from 3-3.5? Do I need the Montser Manual as well?
They should really mention at some point that you need the actual core rulebooks, not just the d20 SRD.

 

[Morrus]

I can borrow the 3rd ed. PHB and DMG from a freind, can I find the info in there? or was something changed from 3-3.5? Do I need the Montser Manual as well?

Yeah, 3.0 would be fine. MM not needed.

They should really mention at some point that you need the actual core rulebooks, not just the d20 SRD.

I've never actually looked at DB, but if it's using the d20 license then it must say so on the cover somewhere, as that's one of the license conditions.

 

[Flyspeck23]

First things first: thanks, Morrus!

Yes, it says so on the cover: Requires the PHB.

And Morrus is right: if you're just looking for the XP tables, the 3.0 versions got those and you can use them. PHB would be enough I think, don't know why you'd need the DMG to run DB. And because DB has a huge list of opponents you indeed don't need the MM.

Krispy, sorry for any inconvenience. Frankly, I never expected anyone to start playing d20 because of DB, it was aimed at people already familiar with the system. When I'm done redesigning the TOGC site (including the DB site) I'll make it more obvious that you can't run a game with DB+SRD alone.

 

[Krispy]

Ok, cool.
No, there's no inconvenience, my freind never uses them anymore, so I think i can borrow them on a "permenant basis"

I've wanted to use the D20 system for years, but have never really felt the inclination/had the time to DM a campaign (I want to play not DM), so DB fits the bill perfectly. The fact that it looks to be the Ultimate Dungeon Crawler boardgame doesn't hurt either.

Just to clarify, what sections do I need? Is it just the PHB or do I need stuff from the DMG as well?
EDIT: Whoa, totally skipped the middle of your post. I mention the DMG because that where the XP rewards by CR table is. I don't know what's necessary though, I'm a total beginner with D20.

 

[Flyspeck23]

EDIT: Whoa, totally skipped the middle of your post. I mention the DMG because that where the XP rewards by CR table is. I don't know what's necessary though, I'm a total beginner with D20.

Oh, of course, you'll need that too
So yes, that's a reason you'd need that. Sorry. But you still don't need the MM

Btw, let me know how your first game went!

 

[Krispy]

Holy man.
Christ on a bike.

OK, so, first session.
Players: 3 n00bs, 1 semi-experienced (not me)
Character creation: 3 hours. There's so much info scattered throught different sections, like Hit dice at first level, and 1 Feat a t 1st level (hidden in the Feats section) plus general confusion and mayhem.
We used the Starting Packages in the PHB for starting equipment, a base gold value (and suggestions on what to buy for each class) would be nice.
DB itself is awesome, really easy to use and NOT confusing.
some house rules that quicly evolved:
No Surprise rounds, and no Monster awareness checks, monsters are always considered to be aware of the players. Simplifies things immensely.
Players are assumed to be travelling to a large enough city center to be able to buy ANYTHING.
*shrugs* This'll probaly change with DBX: Urban
Although it's cool to be able to build your own Magic Weapon.

Okay
First quest:
Monster Hunt
Initial: Section, Dead end, 1 door
*open door*
Small room
*roll on monster hunt table*
6 - Bone Devil
hmm
PCs : Level 1
Bone Devil: CR 9
Ain't happening. We halved it's CR and stats across the board.

Ok, a suggestion:
separate Room encounter tables for large rooms, it seems wierd to have the same monsters available for small and large rooms.

Wicked awesome fun though, once we got into the swing of things.
*edit*
One more houserule: Monsters attack the Pc with the lowes AC until unconsiousness the switch to the secon -lowest and so on, this is a bit easier than the monster all-out attacking someone till death.
This rule was created when adventuring wirth 3 PCs.

 

[Flyspeck23]

Holy man.
Christ on a bike.

Character creation: 3 hours. There's so much info scattered throught different sections, like Hit dice at first level, and 1 Feat a t 1st level (hidden in the Feats section) plus general confusion and mayhem.
We used the Starting Packages in the PHB for starting equipment, a base gold value (and suggestions on what to buy for each class) would be nice.
DB itself is awesome, really easy to use and NOT confusing.

Character creation takes a little time to get used to, that's right. The PDF version has some pre-made characters of different levels - adding these to the download section of the DB Site is on my to-do list (for those with the POD).

some house rules that quicly evolved:
No Surprise rounds, and no Monster awareness checks, monsters are always considered to be aware of the players. Simplifies things immensely.

While DB was designed to be the most complex and versatile of all the available RPG boardgames, there's nothing wrong with toning it down a bit.

Players are assumed to be travelling to a large enough city center to be able to buy ANYTHING.

*shrugs* This'll probaly change with DBX: Urban[/QUOTE]
Yes, it will.

Okay
First quest:
Monster Hunt
Initial: Section, Dead end, 1 door
*open door*
Small room
*roll on monster hunt table*
6 - Bone Devil
hmm
PCs : Level 1
Bone Devil: CR 9
Ain't happening. We halved it's CR and stats across the board.

A roll of 6 on the Monster Hunt table for a party of 4 lvl 1 characters (Average Party Level (APL) 1) would've been a White Dragon Wyrmling - still a tough encounter, but nothing like a Bone Devil (the Bone Devil appears on a roll of 1 if the APL is 8).
Here's what you do: first you calculate the APL (simple, if all characters are of the same level: for example, (4x1)/4=1). That gives you the row you should use. Then you roll a d6 (before you go into the dungeon) to see what kind of creature you're hunting. And that creature will be in the Quest Room - not necessarily the first room you enter.

Ok, a suggestion:
separate Room encounter tables for large rooms, it seems wierd to have the same monsters available for small and large rooms.

If that's your thing, go ahead and design your own tables - that's what the blank tables are there for. For the basic game, there are already many tables, not sure if it'd be a good thing to add more.

Wicked awesome fun though, once we got into the swing of things.

It is, isn't it?

One more houserule: Monsters attack the Pc with the lowes AC until unconsiousness the switch to the secon -lowest and so on, this is a bit easier than the monster all-out attacking someone till death.
This rule was created when adventuring wirth 3 PCs.

Oh, that's already the intent of the rule: a PC that goes down because he's dead or unconscious is ignored by all opponents. Only after all PCs are down will the opponents continue to hack any unconscious PCs to pieces...

 

[Krispy]

Oooh.
Yeah, I confused the Rows/Columns in the Monster Hunt table, and didn't notice that the rows went up to 8 *blush*.

Oh yeah, another really really useful variant I came up with: I modified the Makeshift counters so they were blank (and a lighter color) when I printed them, then I just wrote the name / relevant info (HP, AC), in pencil, on the counter when the creature turns up, then erase it when the creature dies. This works really really well, since you don't need to refer to the stats for AC, and you get to track it's current HP right on the creature, instead of scrap paper.

Another thing that would be REALLY useful is a list of all the files that need to be printed for playing DB. For instance, I didn't print the Opponents RTF at first because I thought that it just duplicated info in the SRD. Luckily there were few opponens with class levels encountered, and the only time it was unavoidable (Quest Room), I just picked a random creature with the same CR (note to self: never try taking on a Criosphinx with 3 Level 4 PCs ever again.)