d20 trademark

[sckeener]

I probably missed a thread, but what happens when the D20 trademark runs out at the end of 2008?

Does that mean tons of PDFs have to be taken offline?

Are WotC's PDF books going to go offline? If so, that sounds crazy since the older editions are out there.

 

[Voadam]

I probably missed a thread, but what happens when the D20 trademark runs out at the end of 2008?

Does that mean tons of PDFs have to be taken offline?

Are WotC's PDF books going to go offline? If so, that sounds crazy since the older editions are out there.

According to Scott Rouse in some old threads in the legality forum he said that pdfs will need to be taken offline if they still bear the d20 logo, but that it may be as simple as modifying the pdf to cover the logo to be OK for sale. (OGL products that do not use the d20 STL are not impacted by the termination of the d20 STL).

I do not believe he specifically addressed the non logo parts of the d20 STL that entered into products (using specified references to trademarked names, etc.) however.

A couple companies have said they do not plan to put in the work to change their pdfs and will be retiring the ones with the logo (Adamant and Mongoose have said so). Others have already removed the logo from many of their pdfs (Bastion Press/Dragonwing Games, Fiery Dragon).

As far as I know WotC has not said what they plan to do with the 3e WotC pdfs. They are not subject to the terms of the d20 STL as WotC holds the d20 trademark and did not release them under the d20 STL. They could stay up forever for WotC to keep earning money from them or be taken down tomorrow so they do not "compete" with 4e stuff. They are currently full print cover price for the pdfs while pre3e ones range from $4-$6 each.

 

[El Mahdi]

According to Scott Rouse in some old threads in the legality forum he said that pdfs will need to be taken offline if they still bear the d20 logo, but that it may be as simple as modifying the pdf to cover the logo to be OK for sale. (OGL products that do not use the d20 STL are not impacted by the termination of the d20 STL).

I do not believe he specifically addressed the non logo parts of the d20 STL that entered into products (using specified references to trademarked names, etc.) however.

A couple companies have said they do not plan to put in the work to change their pdfs and will be retiring the ones with the logo (Adamant and Mongoose have said so). Others have already removed the logo from many of their pdfs (Bastion Press/Dragonwing Games, Fiery Dragon).

As far as I know WotC has not said what they plan to do with the 3e WotC pdfs. They are not subject to the terms of the d20 STL as WotC holds the d20 trademark and did not release them under the d20 STL. They could stay up forever for WotC to keep earning money from them or be taken down tomorrow so they do not "compete" with 4e stuff. They are currently full print cover price for the pdfs while pre3e ones range from $4-$6 each.

So, let me see if I have this right:

If a pdf (or hardcopy book) have "D20" on it, it needs to either be removed or permanently covered.

The "OGL" designation however, is okay to remain.


Is this correct?


And what about:

If it says "Compatable with Dungeons & Dragons" does that have to be removed?

If it says "Compatable with 3rd Edition (or 3.5) Dungeons & Dragons", does that have to be removed?

 

[MerricB]

And what about:

If it says "Compatable with Dungeons & Dragons" does that have to be removed?

If it says "Compatable with 3rd Edition (or 3.5) Dungeons & Dragons", does that have to be removed?

Those were permissible only by the terms of the D20 licence, so they must be removed.

Cheers!

 

[Ranger REG]

Those were permissible only by the terms of the D20 licence, so they must be removed.

Including citation and reference from certain WotC copyrighted books?

(e.g., "For more information, see the Combat Chapter of the Player's Handbook")

 

[MerricB]

Including citation and reference from certain WotC copyrighted books?

(e.g., "For more information, see the Combat Chapter of the Player's Handbook")

I'm fairly sure that's the case. They were all things specifically allowed by the d20 System License. Those references might be allowed under general copyright la, but are probably stopped by the general OGL (which forbids indicating compatibility).

This clause of the OGL v1.0a in particular:
"7. Use of Product Identity: You agree not to Use any Product Identity, including as an indication as to compatibility, except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of each element of that Product Identity. You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark. The use of any Product Identity in Open Game Content does not constitute a challenge to the ownership of that Product Identity. The owner of any Product Identity used in Open Game Content shall retain all rights, title and interest in and to that Product Identity."

Cheers!

 

[El Mahdi]

Thanks Merric. That pretty much answered my previous question also. Too bad we don't have an OGL primer to explain it all to us "lay" people.