d30 for attack rolls

[MJS]

Hello PeoplesI happened across a post or blog somewhere talking about using d30's for attack rolls. Then last week, I read an interview with a 2E designer stating they wish they had lowered the THAC0s by 4.

so, I thought about using d30's myself. As far as I can figure, it increases the hit probability by 20-30% or so. An AC 5(or 15 for you kids) gets hit on d20 30% of the time. On d30, it's more like 50/50. But, for AC 0, hit 5% of the time on d20, the d30 will hit closer to 35%.

I'm not a math wiz, so maybe I'm off here. But it looks like a good way to increase hits, at least for 1E/2E, but the tougher AC's lose a little of their effectiveness relative to the lighter armors.

Anyone use d30 attacks? What do you think of it? It's a bit sloppy, does some funny things to AC, but overall seems a good way to keep combats , err, rolling along. Maybe I should just get some larger d20's; honestly part of the appeal is simply tactile. Although I know no one at ENworld would do such a thing, larger dice are also better for hurling at other gamers, especially 4E enthusiasts.

 

[Dog Moon]

I don't really remember 2e THAC0 well enough to know how it works. I know in 3e it would make hitting a lot easier, altough unless you modified the crit range, you would crit hit/miss fewer times.

In general though using d20 + attack mods usually is good enough to hit most things. Rarely is hitting things a problem, especially in the Paizo Adventure Paths. I think it would make AC less useful because people are going to be hit much more often. Combats would be quicker, but they'd also be more deadly, for both sides.

 

[MJS]

I don't really remember 2e THAC0 well enough to know how it works. I know in 3e it would make hitting a lot easier, altough unless you modified the crit range, you would crit hit/miss fewer times.

In general though using d20 + attack mods usually is good enough to hit most things. Rarely is hitting things a problem, especially in the Paizo Adventure Paths. I think it would make AC less useful because people are going to be hit much more often. Combats would be quicker, but they'd also be more deadly, for both sides.

Theres no real difference. THAC0 just has AC going down. Plate mail is AC 3 in O/AD&D, and what, 17 in 3/PF.
3/PF has a lot more bonus inflation, so the remark has more to do with 1/2E specifically.
I just like d30's. gotta use 'em for something....

 

[GMMichael]

Consequences of using d30:

-Harder to tell if a die roll hasn't stopped flat.
-A 1-point bonus or penalty only makes 3.333% difference, instead of 5% (which is already pretty low).
-All existing 2E ACs get easier to hit. So lowering THAC0s makes those ACs even easier to hit. Better make some other universal adjustments.

How about 3d10? That raises the average attack roll, while making results above 20 fairly rare.

 

[Dog Moon]

How about 3d10? That raises the average attack roll, while making results above 20 fairly rare.

Well, I think 1(or 3) to 30 was not really his target range, just that he liked the d30. Like how people talk about the sad d12... only used for Greataxes and Barbarian Hit Points.

If you're really interested in using the d30, I would create other random charts that let you use the d30 more often. Like charts for the weather, what type of weapon the bad guy uses, NPC traits, etc. You can get it so that as DM you get to roll d30 for ALL the extra bonus stuff, which adds up definitely, without making you have to rethink the entire system for 2e or 3e.

 

[GMMichael]

Come to think of it, why does Weapon Specialization add points to damage? Couldn't it just upgrade the die type?

New feat: Blade Master
Prereq: Weapon focus in one type of bladed weapon.
Benefit: The weapon for which you have focus, and the next most similar weapon, improve their damage dice by one type.

New uses for the d30:
Crit damage: when you score a critical hit, you roll d30 instead of the normal damage dice.

Epic Weapons: these weapons normally roll 1d30 for damage.

Supernatural skills: 3 times per day, you can use a d30 to roll your skill check in the skill for which you have supernatural talent.

 

[MJS]

Come to think of it, why does Weapon Specialization add points to damage? Couldn't it just upgrade the die type?

New feat: Blade Master
Prereq: Weapon focus in one type of bladed weapon.
Benefit: The weapon for which you have focus, and the next most similar weapon, improve their damage dice by one type.

New uses for the d30:
Crit damage: when you score a critical hit, you roll d30 instead of the normal damage dice.

Epic Weapons: these weapons normally roll 1d30 for damage.

Supernatural skills: 3 times per day, you can use a d30 to roll your skill check in the skill for which you have supernatural talent.

Now this I like. I had a similar thought of allowing some d30 attack (with triple damage on 30) for a special effect, not sure what - a potion, a blessing, or whatever.

and I like the increase in damage in dice type also.

i start a new game tomorrow! i won't be using d30 attacks, that seems a little too much, but it will come up somewhere down the line...


*edit* yes a potion with a mysterious "30" etched into the glass...

 

[bone_naga]

Come to think of it, why does Weapon Specialization add points to damage? Couldn't it just upgrade the die type?

2e had degrees of weapon mastery (you first needed specialization) and one of them (can't remember if it was high or grand mastery) did upgrade the damage die. I took a lot of those 2e proficiencies and converted them directly to feats with no issues.

 

[GMMichael]

2e had degrees of weapon mastery (you first needed specialization) and one of them (can't remember if it was high or grand mastery) did upgrade the damage die. I took a lot of those 2e proficiencies and converted them directly to feats with no issues.

The important difference (between adding points to die rolls or increasing die types) is that increasing the die type only increases your average damage. Granting bonuses has a slightly different effect, but always raises minimum damage. So a weapon grand master can still roll a 1 on damage.

 

[bone_naga]

The important difference is that increasing the die type increases your average damage. Granting bonuses has a slightly different effect, but always raises minimum damage. So a weapon grand master can still roll a 1 on damage.

Um...ok? The important difference between what and what? I'm not questioning what you said, I just don't see the relevance to my quote.