SuperJosh said:All in all I like it, the only issue I might have is the fact that taking 1 feat completely does away with the negative aspects of casting. I think that given the increased number of feats the characters are supposed to get in 4e you might want to make this a chain, or better yet make the preserver roll to see if they succeed in not killing plants. If the roll fails they have a choice of discontinuing the spell, or continuing and killing plants. If it passes great. The feat could be taken additional times to add positive modifiers to his roll.
Well, the point was not to make it particularly burdensome to become a preserver. Remember that the standard D&D wizard is effectively a preserver; requiring a feat to get to where the standard D&D wizard already is has the effect of nerfing the wizard. One feat isn't too bad, especially since 4E feats are both more common and less potent than 3E feats. But if it takes multiple feats just to reach the level you're already supposed to be at according to the Player's Handbook, that hits preservers pretty hard.
My idea with the Defiler/Preserver Mastery feats was to make it possible to be either a defiler or a preserver, without having a major impact on game balance; and at the same time, to provide an avenue for preservers to "turn to the Dark Side," an avenue which is constantly tempting but not crazy overpowered.
Vayden said:Going to take a shot at Mhuls or Thri-keen? I guess it depends on if there are any good playable monster races that could match up.
Muls, maybe; might use hobgoblin stats for them. Thri-kreen, probably not, unless somebody really wants to play a giant bug.
smathis said:Have Dragonborn replace Muls. Do away with Half-Giants. Half-Giants were always just these big, burly wandering dudes who happened to hook up with a settlement once in a while. Muls sounds much more like what you describe.
This is a distinct possibility... heck, dragonborn might replace both. It's quite possible that dragonborn could be both elite warriors in the sorceror-kings' armies and masters of the gladiatorial arena.
smathis said:Make Eladrin the default Elves of Dark Sun. Fits better with their desert traveller types, IMO.
You think? Elves have all those ranger-type special abilities...
smathis said:Have Tieflings take the place (roughly) of Maenads or maybe Pterrans. Sure, both those are later additions to the setting. But Tieflings would fit well as the race that just one day showed up out of nowhere, migrating from some unknown land.
Keep in mind that tieflings are not just "random race #5." They have a distinct flavor, reinforced by their special abilities. I thought it was a good idea to suggest a dark origin for them, hence the link to a mysterious dead city.
smathis said:Personally, I'd do away with the Clerics in Dark Sun. I never cared for them much. But YMMV.
I'd prefer not to cut any of the basic races or classes out of the setting altogether. Elemental clerics are kind of a kludge though. Perhaps clerics and paladins draw power from the moons?
smathis said:I've never felt that cannibal halflings made a great PC race. But I'm sure others feel differently on the matter.
Man, I love me some cannibal halflings. They may be my favorite part of the whole setting.
breschau said:At first I was down with the Warlock being templars. Not any more. In the source material the templars healed, they're clerics. They mimic the warlocks pact, but it's required and they can only choose one, so it's more a written part of the class than something cool they chose.
I don't see healing as necessarily an important part of the templar class, though. In fact, it seems slightly inappropriate. Templars are agents of the sorceror-kings; they're not very nice people. The warlock flavor seems to fit them a lot better.
breschau said:This is a decent start, and I like some of your ideas, but this is why I would prefer WotC to do the update. In the span of 7 posts we've got 5 different directions to go. Each one of us will have slightly different ideas about how to bring over the setting, and each of us will have different pet favorites we have to keep exactly like the source. I'm at least waiting for the books to start my conversion.
I'd like a WotC update too, but we're not gonna get it till 2010 at the earliest, and I'd rather not wait that long. Anyway, I'm not proposing this as The Universal Authoritative 4E Dark Sun. I'm looking for something that works at my gaming table, and maybe at other people's too. If you like some of my ideas, by all means use 'em, but I see nothing wrong with everyone having their own opinion on exactly what 4E Dark Sun ought to look like.
Kordeth said:I like everything you've got here except for the defiling/preserving mechanic--if we assume that most PC wizards will want to be preservers, which is IMHO not an unreasonable assumption, you're basically forcing every one of them to pick this feat at 1st level. It's a throwback to the 3E "all rogues need Weapon Finesse ASAP" design, and it's one of those things 4E is built around avoiding.
A better way to do it, I think, would be to make Defile an at-will class feature of the wizard, which gives, say, a +2 to the attack roll of your next spell but withers all plants within a close burst 1. You could even add effects to other spells that conveys an extra benefit if you Defile your way through it.
That kind of messes with the math though, because it means defilers are getting +2 across the board. It also does away with the whole defiler/preserver distinction--you can use either one at will.
But maybe the Preserver/Defiler Mastery feats should instead be wizard class features, where you pick one at first level, as Vagabundo suggested.
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