D&D 5E [Dark Sun] How Would YOU Handle Defiling in 5e?

[Kinneus]

I'm starting a new play-by-post campaign set in Athas, and I'm not sure how to handle arcane defiling given the 5e rules. Rather than put forward my own house rules, I thought I'd solicit ideas from you fine folks.

I know I want it to be mechanically powerful, since there are significant social drawbacks to doing it. Other than that, though, I'm stumped.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Defiling is the way you cast spells at higher level in Dark Sun. It becomes the default way that any wizard (and maybe sorcerer, and maybe bard) does this. It increases the power of a spell as if you had spent a higher-level slot, but you don't need to spend a higher-level slot, you just need to defile an area around you. If I wanted to get fancy, maybe have a "life cost" for each spell level you want to increase, and you can defile a greater area or more powerful creatures to pay it. Like, a 10' radius or 10 hp worth of creatures is worth one defiling point (you can't deal damage, but creatures with < that hp just die outright). The cost in life points for a more powerful spell is exponential (+1 level = 1 life point; +2 levels = 3 life points; +3 levels = 6 life points; etc.), so to ramp up a low-level spell to a high level might cost a pretty large area its vitality. You also can't defile where there's no life, so if you're in a desert or whatever, no go. But you can surround yourself with...er...batteries (slaves) who you can use to power your spells, too.

You can avoid this cost - you can become a preserver, which is the normal spell scaling rules, where you're actually spending higher-level slots. This is not common knowledge, though, so if you do this, you're part of some preserver tradition that has taught you how to do this. No one knows how to do this without being connected to some group.

That's where I'd start, anyway.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

IIRC, in 2nd edition, even 1st level spells impacted the environment when case by a defiler. The mechanics were just that you left a ring of ash around you, that scaled based on the spell. You can easily rip the mechanics for 5E. The mechanical advantage was that you cast spells at the normal cast time, whereas preservers had to take longer. Preservers on the other hand, werent automatically hated and leaving around big black circles painting an obvious bullseye on them, so they had that going for them.

The low crunch option I would consider is requiring a preserver to announce at the start of the round if they are going to cast a spell, and if so, giving them disadvantage on initiative that round (even if you dont do random initiative every round, ahve them roll and if lower than their standard initiative, they go at that point forwards).

Alternately, if you want to add some oomph to defilers, you could let sorcerers gain sorcery points for defiling (the rulers of the cities are called Sorcerer Kings after all). I would limit this to NPC's however.

 

[frankthedm]

Defilers should not get more power. They are the ones using magic as they are supposed too on Athas. I'd use the defiling radius straight out of the original box set, cast an arcane spell, wham, mundane plants are ash in an enormous radius.

Preservers are the supposed to be giving up something, but since the ruleset no longer supports different XP progressions, I'd recommend one of these at DM's choice: target saves at advantage, spell attack roll is at disadvantage, duration is halved or spell effect is halved.

Brom era Dark sun was about survival in a blasted land ruled by wicked sorcerer kings where the very concept of paladin had gone extinct long ago. Defilers even earned XP notably faster than preservers to boot. What balances that out? Nothing. Well, other than how much your allies are willing to put up / be seen with you.

Being a preserver means you are taking the moral high road on a world where that is not rewarded. If the DM wants to reward that, make the Veiled Alliance more helpful and bundle that in with a feat for bringing preserving up to par. Maybe too harsh, but I'm willing to charge a feat tax when there should be a decent number of new character options to try in a Dark Sun campaign.

Old thread on Dark Sun.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...al-Rules-and-other-stuff&p=3690966&viewfull=1

 

[jgsugden]

I'd make defiling class options. If you're a sorcerer, wizard or warlock, defiler is your origin, school or pact. Selecting another origin, school or pact would require a DC 15 Will Save (addictive defiling is hard to resist...).

You'd always attempt to defile when casting a spell if you are a defiler. When you attempt to defile, you'd create a ring 5' in diameter per level of the spell. All creatures within must make a Con check (your spell DC) or they lose the ability to do reactions until the start of your next turn, additionally, all inanimate plant life and small (insect) life in the radius is reduced to ash (fluff mechanic - monster foes are not impaired). If there is no plant life or small life (and no creatures fail a save), you do not defile. When you defile, your spells are cast as if you used a spell slot one level higher (for example, a 1st level spell cast using a first level slot is adjudicated as if a 2nd level slot were used).

Once you get to 6th level in those classes you gain one (additional if you are already a sorcerer) metamagic option from the sorcerer class. You do not gain any (additional) sorcery points when you gain this mechanic. However, you can use your reaction to harvest a bonus sorcery point every time you cast a spell of third level or above and there is plant or animal life within the radius of your defiling aura (DM determination - remembering that each casting will destroy all such life in the aura). You may use these bonus sorcery points as normal sorcery points would be used to power your metamagic option(s). When you use a sorcery point, increase the radius of your defiling aura by 5' per point spent. You lose all bonus sorcery points if you have not gained one in the last minute. You can have a maximum of three bonus sorcery points (if you would gain one but are already at the maximum, you do not reset the clock for keeping these bonus sorcery points).

At 10th level, you gain the Chill Touch cantrip, or another cantrip from your class if you already have this cantrip. Gain 1 bonus sorcery point if you deal damage with Chill Touch. Your limit on bonus sorcery points rises to 4, and you do not lose your bonus sorcery points unless ten minutes expire without you gaining one. You also gain a second (additional if you are a sorcerer) metamagic option. You may replace the metamagic option you selected at 6th level with a different metamagic option.

At 14th level, if a creature dies due to damage inflicted by your spells (including cantrips) or dies within 10' of you, you gain 1 bonus sorcery point (or 2 if they died due to Chill Touch). You also gain 1d10 temporary hp per creature killed by your spells or killed within 10' of you. Normal temporary hp rules apply. You may replace the metamagic options you selected at 6th and 10th level with different metamagic options.

If you're an arcane trickster or an eldritch knight, you gain the base mechanic defiler mechanic (but not the 6th, 10th or 14th level augments) unless you make the wisdom save and select to be a preserver.

 

[Wik]

Well, I personally think Preserving should be considered the mechanical baseline. Much like original boxed set Dark Sun, the preservers were the same as regular PHB wizards (in 2e, they levelled as if wizards, while defilers levelled much quicker).

I'd say that Defilers get a bonus for doing so. Targets save at disadvantage is fun, or attack rolls with disadvantage, but really, just having the spells cast at +1 level for free is simple and pretty awesome.

Of course, regardless of tradition, players should have the option of biting the defiling carrot. Once you defile too many times, though, you should almost start defiling even if you WANT to preserve, simply because you can no longer help yourself.

Defiling should seem like drug addiction. It was a vibe hinted at strongly in some of the source material... and it was the 90s, which was all about trainspotting (it seems).

 

[kerbarian]

Casting a spell at +1 level works well for many spells but not all. To make it more universal, you could say that the spell slot required is at -1 level (minimum 1). So it works out the same if you want to boost the level of your spells, but it also lets you get a benefit for spells that don't scale, e.g. you could cast Haste with a 2nd-level slot.

In some sense, it's similar to leveling faster. You don't get access to spells known any faster, but it pushes your spells per day table one column to the right.

I forget the details of defiling, but IIRC it starts having nastier effects for higher level spells -- draining HP from your allies and such. You could have that start kicking in for spells of level 6+, where you can't cast the spells unless you have enough allied HP to drain.

 

[Wik]

Sure, that works too. I think when I get around to doing defiling, I'm just gonna have a few basic options for what PCs can do with it, and let them choose each time. Something like:

* +1 spell level
* Rush of endorphins gives you advantage on next d20 roll you make before end of next turn
* Advantage on a roll you make as part of the spell

etc.

 

[Rocksome]

I known it might sound a little dumb, but I'd go with "no rules" option. Defiling or preserving is a role-playing choice. Ask your PC if they wanDeet to be defiled or a preserver. There after that is how they cast. I'd be tempted to award inspiration for particularly dramatic uses of defiling by a preserver, or situations where a defilers overcomes some situation where his reputation as a defiler made their life difficult.

In other words, take it out of the realm of game mechanics and put in in the realms of role-playing. You could potential list it in the "Flaws" section of the character sheet I.e. Flaw - Defiler: Your spells destroy the environment around you and as such are universally reviled if you are discovered. OR Flaw - Preserver: You cast your spells in such a way that you do not harm the environment around you. The temptation to power is strong though and the world does not know you are any better than your defiling brethren.

 

[transtemporal]

I liked the 4e way of handling it. Arcane casters got a free "Defiling" feat that you could choose to use when you cast a spell. Doing so reduced plants to ash and gave living creatures penalties or somesuch (could duplicate in 5e with disadvantage). The benefit was that you didn't use a slot.

If you didn't use the feat, you were presumed to be using preserving magic but used the slot as normal so it was very tempting to use if you didn't mind being an evil defiling asshat.