D&D 5E Dark Sun, problematic content, and 5E…

[Scribe]

So, yeah, I'm kinda wondering where this whole "WotC can't do problematic content" schtick is coming from.

The marketing, mostly.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Came across this tweet that nicely sums up why the "problematic content" is important to some settings

I do like how people freak out at worlds that are not completely craptastic, like all settings must be Warhammer, in the middle of some sort of downward spiral into inevitable darkness. People tell me that we must have a variety of settings, some dark, some light, yet they love to freak out when you make something a bit lighter than normal.

There's a reason eberron has (among other things) fantasy megacorps, native demon overlords with deific levels & native fiends trying to unseal them rather than just causing chaos.

Are people complaining about those things, or are we just making that part up?

 

[Scribe]

Are people complaining about those things, or are we just making that part up?

I think the implication being, you have these bad things to fight against, that are clearly bad?

 

[Justice and Rule]

I think the implication being, you have these bad things to fight against, that are clearly bad?

Yeah, but you can do that in other settings. Paizo moved away from publishing stuff involving slavery, but they still have plenty of massive evils, from Cheliax to Tar-Baphon to Treerazor. Plus in Athas, you don't need to fight against slavery; it's an institution, the norm. I think @Magister Ludorum makes a good point about having slave-owners with an alignment of "Good" and how that really shouldn't be.

 

[Scribe]

Yeah, but you can do that in other settings. Paizo moved away from publishing stuff involving slavery, but they still have plenty of massive evils, from Cheliax to Tar-Baphon to Treerazor. Plus in Athas, you don't need to fight against slavery; it's an institution, the norm. I think @Magister Ludorum makes a good point about having slave-owners with an alignment of "Good" and how that really shouldn't be.

Was the King Priest of Istar 'good'. Is Paladine Good? Not sure we need to get into that debate but yes I hear you there are still evils to be fought.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Was the King Priest of Istar 'good'. Is Paladine Good? Not sure we need to get into that debate but yes I hear you there are still evils to be fought.

The inherent problem to this argument is that my entry into D&D was largely defined by Thunder Rift then FR, as well as most of my late-teens efforts went into to reading Warhammer and Warhammer 40K, so I have no naughty word clue what these touchstones of Dragonlance mean to you.

 

[Scribe]

The inherent problem to this argument is that my entry into D&D was largely defined by Thunder Rift then FR, as well as most of my late-teens efforts went into to reading Warhammer and Warhammer 40K, so I have no naughty word clue what these touchstones of Dragonlance mean to you.

OK, is the Commisar in 40K good? The Space Marine Captain?

Or put another way, does Alignment shift, based on the setting in question?

 

[Justice and Rule]

OK, is the Commisar in 40K good? The Space Marine Captain?

Or put another way, does Alignment shift, based on the setting in question?

So the funny thing here is that 40K has softened its setting quite a lot in modern times, but also they've had to speak out against the sort of people who look at those people as absolutely "good". So I feel like it doesn't work on two separate fronts here.

 

[Scribe]

So the funny thing here is that 40K has softened its setting quite a lot in modern times, but also they've had to speak out against the sort of people who look at those people as absolutely "good". So I feel like it doesn't work on two separate fronts here.

By any sane definition, yes, they are all Evil, and yes they have come out and said 'hey you guys, the Imperium is actually bad', but thats part of the question.

By 40K definition, the Imperium is good. Its not a moral judgment on me, (I play Chaos, the actual good guys!) to state that.

The King Priest? Paladine? They were on the side of Good as well, just more an Old Testament brand, than most today are going to find palatable.

 

[Justice and Rule]

By any sane definition, yes, they are all Evil, and yes they have come out and said 'hey you guys, the Imperium is actually bad', but thats part of the question.

By 40K definition, the Imperium is good. Its not a moral judgment on me, (I play Chaos, the actual good guys!) to state that.

The King Priest? Paladine? They were on the side of Good as well, just more an Old Testament brand, than most today are going to find palatable.

I think there is a difference when a system mandates what "alignment" you are and how that can confuse things versus a system and setting that just completely lacks that. Something like that just doesn't work in 40K because everything would be some shade of neutral or evil by the story physics of the setting. D&D is meant to be different, hence different rules. And again, even then you have 40K very much lightening its image over time. I think it's a bad example for this because it's been actively evolving as a setting for a while, and that's not what people are talking about here.