DCs for Falling Star Strike and Freezing the Lifeblood

[Tellerve]

My bad it would be 16, i was thinking about something else my character has from OA that adds 2 to his DC...and sick, and um it is early...ok ok i added wrong. But seriously he does have a martial arts style that adds 2 do his DCs.

As for how it is written in OA, i dunno, I could scower some more but I don't really have the time today. I'm still on the fence, as I think it kinda silly that monks get less DC on their stunning attack. I agree it is good that they get more times per day which is good, so I dunno. Would have made it easier if they had just gone with you getting the Stunning Fist feat. *shrugs*

Tellerve

EDIT: I think if i had to choose I'd take more attempts per day at the cost of DC...*shudders* but not a fun decision

 

[kreynolds]

My bad it would be 16, i was thinking about something else my character has from OA that adds 2 to his DC...and sick, and um it is early...ok ok i added wrong. But seriously he does have a martial arts style that adds 2 do his DCs.

You're thinking of Meditation of War Mastery.

I'm still on the fence, as I think it kinda silly that monks get less DC on their stunning attack. I agree it is good that they get more times per day which is good, so I dunno. Would have made it easier if they had just gone with you getting the Stunning Fist feat. *shrugs*

The more often is what balances it out. They probably just went that route because the monk gets more attacks than others, and it wouldn't due to use up all of your stunning attacks for the day with just one full attack action. Kinda makes sense. Kinda doesn't.

 

[Tellerve]

except for the fact that you can only do it once per round, otherwise good point.

As for the mediation of war, ding ding, you saved me from having to look up the name, that would be the one. Donna, what prize do we have for kreynolds?.... A beautiful brand new ca....err nothing, sorry.

Tellerve

 

[Pielorinho]

Anyways, considering the language of the feats, I would personally be inclined to go with the higher DC of both feats, whether you're a monk or not. However, a more conservative approach would be to base the DC on where the stunning source came from.

For example, if you qualify for the feats because you have Stunning Attack, then base the DC like a monk (10 + half monk level + wis). If you qualify because you took the feat chain, then base the DC as the character (10 + half character level + wis). In either case, use the original source to determine number of times per day.

Customer Service? Pardon me while I laugh. ha! ha! ha! If there's any way to get the question directly to Skip, however, I'd be interested.

(I've not had particularly good experiences with CS, as you may have guessed; I think a flipped coin would be likelier to give me a reasonable answer, and would certainly provide more reasoning for its answer).

The rest of what you said, though, was exactly what I was trying to get at above, regarding basing the DC on whichever path the character uses to enter the feat chain.

I think for now I'll rule that the feats use character level for DCs, not class level, regardless of whether the attacks are drawn from a monk's stunning attack pool or from a non-monk's stunning attack pool. I may change that ruling once I've had time to think about it.

Daniel

 

[kreynolds]

except for the fact that you can only do it once per round, otherwise good point.

LOL Doh!

 

[kreynolds]

Customer Service? Pardon me while I laugh. ha! ha! ha! If there's any way to get the question directly to Skip, however, I'd be interested.

(I've not had particularly good experiences with CS, as you may have guessed; I think a flipped coin would be likelier to give me a reasonable answer, and would certainly provide more reasoning for its answer).

No, no, no. You misunderstand. The point of email CS is not to get a good response. The point is that you email both CS _and_ Skip, that way, not only do you get a (generally) edjucated response from Skip, but you also get a (generally) laughable reply from CS!

The rest of what you said, though, was exactly what I was trying to get at above, regarding basing the DC on whichever path the character uses to enter the feat chain.

I think for now I'll rule that the feats use character level for DCs, not class level, regardless of whether the attacks are drawn from a monk's stunning attack pool or from a non-monk's stunning attack pool. I may change that ruling once I've had time to think about it.

Well, the more I look at those feats, and their requirements, I can't help but think they _should_ be based on character level, as written, in the first place. The reason being is just consider how much you have to give up to nab those feats. By the time you qualify, they should be worth something. Look at it like this. Say there's a feat that adds 1 point of fire damage with an unarmed attack that allows a Fort save with a DC of 10 to negate the fire damage. Let's say it has a BAB requirement of +5. Now, let's say there's another feat that has a BAB requirement of +15, and this one adds +1d6 of fire damage with an unarmed attack that allows a Fort save the same as the previous. Well, by the time you're a 15th level character, that Fort save is way to easy to succeed at, so it simply has to be better. No two ways about it. Otherwise, it just isn't worth taking.

Basically, I'm starting to think that maybe the intent of those feats really is to base the DC off of character level, regardless of whether or not you're a monk. That way, even if you _are_ a multiclassed monk, the DC will be high enough to make the feat worth taking.

 

[Gilwen]

The way I see it they should be based off of the character level.
This feat chain allows they average person to start to tap into their ki.
The monk on the other hand has spent his life learning to do this. Every level is a tribute to the development of his ki. Why couldn't he apply his previous learning to this feat chain?

You as a lay person could learn a new technique to take off someone's arm...couldn't a surgeon learn that same technique and do it better?
Why? Because you have learned only part of what the surgeon has learned and he is aware of things that you are not.

my 2 cp's,

Bryan

 

[kreynolds]

Why couldn't he apply his previous learning to this feat chain?

He can, with half his levels. The more levels in the monk class he has, the better he is at tapping into his ki. If he's a 20th level character but only a 4th level monk, he isn't very good at tapping into his ki, unless he's taken the feat chain as well. A person can tap into their ki just fine without ever taking a single level in monk. It just takes a lot of feats.

In the end, if you focus on one or the other in a singular line, you'll have a good DC. If you don't, it'll falter, just like a 20th level character with only 4 levels of wizard. He isn't very good at tapping into and manipulating the weave.

 

[Tellerve]

Ya know, i'm almost tempted to pick up the Stunning Fist feat as well as having the stunning strike attack. The reason being is that my dm is still unsure about the DCs. He really didn't like my trying to get the Ki Straps from Sword and Fist. And I'm a bit worried my DCs for my pressure point attacks will go down to the 1/2 monk level dc level.

So, if I picked up Stunning Fist, it seems that I would then have two seperate pools of attacks. A monk stunning strike at more times per day but at a lower dc and then only a few at a much higher dc. Hmm, nm, not only do i only have a 12 dex so I couldn't get the feat but that would then only allow me two of the better stunning attacks at the higher DC.

*sigh* I wish the rules were more clear. Oh, and is anyone a not so busy math major? LOL, my argument for the ki straps is that although they add 5 to the DCs they aren't so horrific because they are tied to a per day amount which would be less than say a magical item that gave +5dc to a sorcerers spells. And that I have to close to melee and make a successful attack for them to be forced to make a saving throw. Again, where a spellcaster typically has ranged spells that they point and the person makes a saving throw. No messy get near big baddie and make attack roll stuff. What are you thoughts, kreynolds...others?

Tellerve

 

[azxv]

Stunning Fist

If you're using OA rules, a monk can swap out his stunning fist ability for the stunning attack feat at first level (he can also substitute deflect arrows and improved trip for "martial arts feats" at second and sixth levels, respectively). Because the save DC is based on character level rather than class level, this is a wise decision for a multiclass monk, and renders the discussion over DC's for falling star strike and freezing the lifeblood moot.