DDXP Liveblogging

[UnknownAtThisTime]

I am heading off to make 93 Wilden Runepriests in the CB now.

 

[renau1g]

Only 93? It'll take 93000 to catch up to Fighters

 

[Dausuul]

I tend to subscribe to the theory that there will end up being multiple tiers of DDI subscription - one that's like today's (the Player Tier) which will let you PLAY in Virtual Table games, and then a higher tier (the DM Tier) that will give you access to the Monster Builder and the ability to RUN Virtual Table Games. I also worry that microtransactions are going to be a part of the Virtual Table - pay for each monster, pay for each PC, pay for each Dungeon Tile set, etc.

I agree that there will probably be tiers, but I still can't see WotC making it more expensive to DM than to play. It's hard enough to find a DM already, and the trend in 4E has always been to make the DM's job easier (which is why you see so many 4E fans saying, "I wouldn't mind playing Pathfinder/3E, but I'd never run it again").

I think the tiers will be based around level of access. Something like: Copper tier gets you D&D Essentials and that's it. Silver tier gets you Essentials plus the core published material (all Player's Handbooks, all Monster Manuals/Vaults, all DMGs). Gold tier gets everything--campaign boxed sets, adventures, Dragon, the whole nine yards.

 

[Kralin Thornberry]

cards...

ok so in reality the old store here in ct brass dragon had a great set up, they had a fridge full of soda and candy...and a deal with the local pizza place.

I think a game store with a little bit of work int he food angle for encounters could work...

Well, that's not a good way for a game store to stay in business, because if the prices are too high, the customers who come for the games will bring their own snacks and drinks. And there's really not that much profit margin (from what my FLGS owner friend has told me) in selling snacks and drinks.

 

[LightPhoenix]

I agree that there will probably be tiers, but I still can't see WotC making it more expensive to DM than to play. It's hard enough to find a DM already, and the trend in 4E has always been to make the DM's job easier (which is why you see so many 4E fans saying, "I wouldn't mind playing Pathfinder/3E, but I'd never run it again").

Me neither. If the goal is to increase the number of customers, whom are predominantly going to be players, then they very much do not want to raise the barrier to start being a DM. Higher prices mean less DMs; whether DMs spend more is irrelevant, it's basic economics.

 

[Abstruse]

Me neither. If the goal is to increase the number of customers, whom are predominantly going to be players, then they very much do not want to raise the barrier to start being a DM. Higher prices mean less DMs; whether DMs spend more is irrelevant, it's basic economics.

DMs are always going to spend more than players. As a player, all you need is a character sheet (which you may have made on my computer with my DDi account), a PHB or Rules Compendium, and a mini for your character. As a DM, I need that DDi account for the online Compendium just to cut my prep time, the Rules Compendium or a PHB AND DMG, MMs and/or MV (yes, even with the DDi stuff...players love doing things you can't plan for and jumping on my computer during a session will kill the session far quicker than thumbing through a book), and minis or tokens for the monsters I'm running.

However, I fully agree that anything that makes it harder to find a DM is a bad thing. I'm the only D&D player I've ever met who prefers DMing to playing in a game, and even then I need a break where I can just play or else I'll get burned out fast. Rough guess with nothing to back it up, I'd say that less than 10% of D&D players actually want to DM regularly. Most DMs I know prefer playing but had an idea for a campaign they wanted to run or they DM because if they didn't, they'd never get to play at all because no one else wants to run the game. And the few players I know who've wanted to DM never do because they don't have all the minis and terrain and everything, so they feel intimidated thinking they need those things.

Tools like the VT will help if there's not a massive up-front cost involved because (from what the liveblogs of the demo indicate) it does a lot of the work for you. The monster stats are right there, click on the trapped square and you get the info for that trap, initiative is tracked for you (I ALWAYS hand this off to a player...ALWAYS...one too many things for me to keep track of), you don't have to remember if the orc that just got attacked is Orc #3 or Orc #5 on your sheet because they moved around and switched places and one of them is at full HP and the other's almost dead...it seems like it lets the DM focus on the game and the characters rather than the bookkeeping which is a good thing.

However, if they do tiered pricing, it would HAVE to be Players getting the CB and able to play at a VT and that's it (no Dragon/Dungeon, no Compendium) for a lower price, not raising the price for DMs. And frankly, if they're wanting to emulate X-Box Live's system to keep a steady revenue source, they REALLY need to remember that it only takes 1 X-Box Live Gold account to get a room full of people playing HALO. I don't have to make every single one of my friends pony up $9 just so we can play online together.

 

[catsclaw227]

DMs are always going to spend more than players.

I would agree with this, even if it's only anecdotal. Though, seeing posts in many threads, during both the 3.x and 4e eras, there are a lot of completionists that are only players, and even a lot of purchasers that aren't even in games right now, but enjoy the books and materials for reading content.

However, I fully agree that anything that makes it harder to find a DM is a bad thing. I'm the only D&D player I've ever met who prefers DMing to playing in a game, and even then I need a break where I can just play or else I'll get burned out fast. Rough guess with nothing to back it up, I'd say that less than 10% of D&D players actually want to DM regularly. Most DMs I know prefer playing but had an idea for a campaign they wanted to run or they DM because if they didn't, they'd never get to play at all because no one else wants to run the game. And the few players I know who've wanted to DM never do because they don't have all the minis and terrain and everything, so they feel intimidated thinking they need those things.

Interesting.... I am a DM almost exclusively because I prefer being behind the screen. It scratches my creative itch and I enjoy taking on the roles of many different personalities. (I am not a DMPC kinda guy, it's been a really long time and only because I had 2-3 players for a period back in 2e, so I don't do it for the power trip.)

I do have some friends that like to DM too, and of our current regular group of 6 players, 3 of us can DM with some moderate skill.

Tools like the VT will help if there's not a massive up-front cost involved because (from what the liveblogs of the demo indicate) it does a lot of the work for you. The monster stats are right there, click on the trapped square and you get the info for that trap, initiative is tracked for you (I ALWAYS hand this off to a player...ALWAYS...one too many things for me to keep track of), you don't have to remember if the orc that just got attacked is Orc #3 or Orc #5 on your sheet because they moved around and switched places and one of them is at full HP and the other's almost dead...it seems like it lets the DM focus on the game and the characters rather than the bookkeeping which is a good thing.

Even though prep-time has been slashed dramatically, there is a lot of bookkeeping in 4e. I have my players manage initiative and condition tracking with some hand-held whiteboards so that I can pay attention to the action and be a fair judge of things without having to clutter my head with fiddly-bits.

 

[LightPhoenix]

DMs are always going to spend more than players.

I don't disagree with that statement. However, that statement (true or not) is irrelevant.

WotC wants more DMs. More DMs means more players, a percentage of whom will also be buying some stuff. I'll hazard an uninformed guess that while DMs spend more per person, the sheer number of players makes the player base at least as lucrative as the DM base. Right or wrong, more players means more exposure, and ideally a certain (small) percentage of players jumping to the DM group. So expanding the player base is critical.

Since it's something of a feedback loop*, in that more DMs leads to more players leads to more DMs, the economically logical course of action is to lower the barrier to DM entry as much as possible. They don't need to raise prices to make a profit off of DMs because by our definition they are spending more. Tiered-pricing does exactly that though - it taxes DMs (who are already spending more) and raises the barrier to entry into the DM group.

In my opinion, the best course of action is to let all the DM tools be covered under DDI with the CB at the same price. That provides no disincentive for curious players to dip their toe into the DM side of things. Are all of them going to make the plunge? No, obviously not. However, WotC - and arguably, the hobby as a whole - doesn't need (nor want) all of them too. The just want enough to grow the player base in order to maintain a growing cycle.

* It's not a true feedback loop, but for all purposes can be considered one. There are external influences; advertising, global economy, alternative forms of exposure (comics, FLGS, shows). However, I think that the primary method of entry into the hobby is by far and away through friends. I assume that the number of people starting through friends dwarfs (no pun intended) that of the others combined.

 

[Zaukrie]

I find the lack of news kind of sad. "New products" announced, of which there are few. And a demo of the VTT, which we already knew about (and still no timeframes).

DDXP was (is) supposed to be THE show for D&D, and there is just so little to be a fan about right now.

 

[Erren]

Is there any liveblogging or coverage of the second Product Spotlight seminar that was supposed to happen today? I assume the presentation will be the same, but I was hoping for some clarification on the Hero Builder handbook (that's now supposed to have Themes - except it was also cancelled?) and maybe some interesting stuff in the QA part of the presentation.