Dealing with talk monkeys

[Keenath]

So, I have this big encounter set up. It's got everything; there's monsters and traps and a big set-piece battle to bust into an enemy fortress! The players are all ready to go, and then the warlock says those dreaded words....

"I'm gonna use Diplomacy."

Oh god. He's level five, and he rolls a total of 32 (18 on the die + 4 charisma + 5 trained + 5 power bonus), so now I have to deal with it.

Well, he tried to talk the hobgoblins into letting him pass, and his check result certainly supported it, but I didn't want to let this big set piece go to waste (and there wasn't really any way to insert it later), so I had the hobs accept his claims of friendship but stand firm by their orders to let none pass, and therefore allow him to leave peacefully if he chose, but he'd have to fight his way in anyway if he wanted to go on. (Which they had to, so they wound up doing the fight anyway.)

How do I deal with this sort of thing? I felt bad that I essentially screwed him out of any benefit of his massive diplomacy roll, but at the same time Beguiling Tongue is an encounter power! So I can expect to be seeing this a lot in the future.

How should I handle trying to talk his way out of a fight?

I guess making one good talk roll should count sort of the same as making one strong attack roll, so it should remove a minion or two, or demoralize one normal monster, or something else that's approximately what one good attack roll would do. Even then I know he probably won't be happy with it, because I know he's angling to try to bypass the battle totally. Intimidate has some rules for how it might interact with combat, but Diplomacy and Bluff? I have no idea.

 

[Flipguarder]

I had a similar situation. The PCs were in a tower causing the entire continent to go insane, killing everything in their path on the way to the top. No regard for life whatsoever. They are blocked in a 5ft highway by a minotaur. They decided to roll a diplomacy check and rolled a 20. So.... he became their friend. until he fell 80 feet during the next battle on a rope. The damage didn't bring him to 0 hp but I decided he died anyway.

There's no reason to not do this sometimes. Start throwing monsters that don't know their language or don't care in the future.

 

[Sgt_Shock]

Have you considered stressing to the player that Always Chaotic Evil NPCs are risky business when it comes to making deals?

Rolls are great and all, but sometimes they're not the sole end-all to determining results. For instance, one attempting to reason with an Orc Chieftain may be forced to prove themselves worthy enough to even be reasoned with. I imagine that in Orc culture, subtlety and choice-of-words means less when compared to, say, prowess in combat or physical ability. Because of this, I'm reluctant to grant full diplomatic power without certain cultural elements taken account for. A well-spoken political type could never assert himself as an equal to an Orc Chieftain without proving himself in say, a duel or contest.

Remember, when one party in a negotiation views themselves as greater then the other, they will often avoid opting for an equal deal. Well-spokenness can only get you so far in some cultures.

 

[bonus]

Well if they're abusing Diplomacy on every encounter, just tell them "No, sorry, you can't use Diplomacy here. They absolutely don't want to talk to you."

 

[Ryujin]

Where to start, where to start...... This is coming from a "talk monkey" who, while he doesn't have Beguiling tongue, he does have the Bardic ritual Glib Limerick and a pretty good Charisma.

So the Warlock gets in one good diplomacy roll. So what? That means that the party will get to speak without being filled full of holes. That's assuming that 32 is a high enough roll that it will still succeed after you take off the -10 for how they react to people trying to get past their guardpost.

A single roll is never going to get a party past a well guarded outpost. It doesn't matter if it's steatlh or diplomacy; you simply don't completely 'disarm' the opposition by making one skill roll. That's the reason for the skill challenge system. As Sgt Shock says, Orcs likely don't respect sugary words. Bluster and strength of sword arm are likely of much more use. That means bluff, intimidate, and downright beating on them are the best ways to go. You might give one success for diplomacy, like I said to keep from getting arrowed to pieces, but then they'd have to switch skills.

Then you consider role play. Are the statements made by the characters the sort of thing that you think would be effective, or are they digging their own graves every time that they open their traps? Give bonuses or penalties based on the ideas that they have and if one player has a particularly good one, perhaps give a little bonus experience.

It's a perfect opportunity for a free-form skill challenge. Make it just as tough as the combat is likely to be, or it's too easy a success. If they succeed, then give them the experience that they would have gained by killing their opponents. Let them have some fun with it, but don't make it easy.

 

[Klaus]

Diplomacy isn't required to work when you roll high enough. Some NPCs are too entrenched in their beliefs, or too dismissive of the PCs, that Diplomacy is an auto-fail.

What I suggest:

Player: Can I try Diplomacy?

DM: You can roll an Insight check to see if they're open to negotiations.

Player: <rolls> I got a 25.

DM: They're not backing down without a fight.

 

[Turtlejay]

We are having something similar going on in our games. Always someone gets knocked out at the end of the fight. We have this annoying habit of not killing, then interrogating, one of the combatants.

This gets messy when you have 3 or 4 encounters in one building/dungeon, and by the end you have half a dozen prisoners tied up in various rooms. Some of them tortured.

I think if you are planning on making a diplomat PC, or someone with an aversion to killing, you need to be up front about it, and try to keep to that character ideal. The DM can then plan for that eventuality, and allow you to shine occasionally.

Jay

 

[Samir]

Gogo double post.

 

[Samir]

<snip>

This. Allowing them to bypass the encounter with a single diplomacy check is like allowing them to win the encounter with a single melee basic attack.

Diplomacy is not mind control. In some encounters, the best it's going to do for you is buy you a little time.

 

[Dr_Sage]

In my opinion if the players try to talk with humanoids from time to time and do not slaughter everyone (like in the example above) I think you should allow Diplomacy to work.

Its original, its nice, and frankly: we have stealth masters, intimidate masters, so why not allow diplomacy?

I think once you allow a roll, if the guy roleplayed well, and he rolls a 20: screw up with all your preparation. basically its one of those situations where the PCs thought an original solution.

If yoy want to find a middle ground, the fight could start but with - say - 50% of the enemies, sinse the others decided not to atack for now.

And for "winning an encouter with one attack", how about 20 minutes of pure roleplay and a skill challenge? I would go for it!