D&D 5E death by unusual polymorph

[Bub_the_zombie]

Sorry if this has been addressed before, after a modest search with no results figure to ask myself.

I know that the polymorph spell ends if the creature's hp total is reduced to zero and the person it was cast on takes that damage (or in the event of damage that would reduce it below zero just stays at zero).

But what if you polymorph the target that cannot survive in the environment?
Shark to kitten
Human to seahorse

Do the targets drown?

It does not reduce the hp total and will not violate the spell as written.

How would you rule on this if you were dming?

 

[Joker]

Well, if it's suffocating, the creature is reduced to 0 hit points. Now, for balance purposes I would say that means it then reverts to its normal form.

Of course, as a druid, you could polymorph someone into a salmon and then drop from 200 feet or into a volcano.

 

[Li Shenron]

How would you rule on this if you were dming?

I don't know the final details of it, but I think the purpose of the new polymorph version is clear. It's not meant to be a killing spell, but rather a disabling spell. It still gives the caster's party plenty of advantage, it doesn't need to be allowed that old trick of turning someone into a fish (which by the way it's so old by now that it shouldn't be rewarded for creativity).

Unfortunately there is no version of polymorph that gets rid of every single silly abuse... For example if someone friendly has been polymorphed (as per the standard spell), it's very easy to break the curse by just killing him! But story-wise this is not to my taste... definitely I won't let the players assume that the player character's polymorph spell is the only polymorph spell in the fantasy world!

 

[Bub_the_zombie]

Thanks

I like the suffocating reduces the creature to zero hp then rules as applicable. Exactly the type of answer I was looking for.

Also agree that polymorph should be more of the debilitating spell and not a save or die spell.

Agree about the fish is an old trick and annoying.

It is much more rewarding having a clan of ogres now be a flock of sheep owned by a sorcerer. (Last 3.5 game when polymorph was permanent. )

 

[ranger69]

When I DM I would allow the PC's to use the Polymorph spell to turn a creature into something unsuitable for it's environment on a failed save. Then opponents spellcasters would then use the same tactics on the PC's. If they choose not to use polymorph, then the NPC's don't. The spell isn't banned as such under such an agreement, just ignored.

 

[machineelf]

I think the purpose of the new polymorph version is clear.

Is there a new polymorph version that they updated for the e-version of the rules? Or are you just referring to the spell as is in the 5th ed. PHB?

 

[Li Shenron]

Is there a new polymorph version that they updated for the e-version of the rules? Or are you just referring to the spell as is in the 5th ed. PHB?

By "new" I mean the version of polymorph that ended up in the released 5e PHB, but honestly I don't know the details because I don't have the PHB yet... My opinions are based on what I remember announced during the playtest about wildshape (neither polymorph nor wildshape are in Basic), i.e. the new mechanics (new compared to all previous D&D editions) of granting a pool of extra HP, so that when they drop to 0 the target is reverted to the original form and previous HP instead of dying.

 

[fuindordm]

Polymorph is an excellent and versatile spell--you can use it to shut down an enemy or as a utility spell for the party. I'm fine with it being easy to dispel by "killing" the new form.

However, a typical fantasy world also calls for a spell closer to 3E's Baleful Polymorph where the form is permanent, the HP of the new form are your own, and if you die in the new form then you die. This spell is more limited in use but significantly more powerful. It actually sounds pretty similar to the Binding spell in duration and difficulty of removing the spell; the difference being that the target is still free to move around and try to get the spell undone.

So maybe 6th level? For extra fairy-tale goodness specify that the new form is always able to talk. If you cast it using a 7th level slot you can change the creature into a tiny animal, but not one that would die in its current environment (so no changing someone into a fish unless they're in a pond at the time--and no turning someone into a freshwater fish if they're in the ocean). If you cast using an 8th level slot you can change them into a plant (now they're stuck in place, and the spell really is comparable to Binding). If you cast using a 9th level slot then you can change them into any sort of object, such as a small statuette or a weapon--but this still doesn't prevent them from talking.

 

[AmerginLiath]

But what if you polymorph the target that cannot survive in the environment?
Shark to kitten...

The gods rule that, for that one brief moment, you were trying to drown a kitten, and go for divine retribution?