D&D 5E Death from Exhaustion

[Illithidbix]

Sure but there's the next paragraph: "If the spell is still in effect when the target is subjected to an effect that would kill it instantaneously without dealing damage, that effect is instead negated against the target, and the spell ends." Sure seems like that should apply, doesn't it?

Bah, the summary I looked at seemed to miss that line. That'll teach me not to bother going and fetching my PHB.
Shameful display.

 

[Saeviomagy]

To me it seems like saying "oh, an effect that causes a condition that kills you isn't actually an effect killing you" sounds like some serious rules-lawyering.

 

[epithet]

What's wrong with the literal interpretation? I don't understand the problem you're trying to solve here. It says "death;" is that not clear enough?

No, it really isn't. In D&D you can, like Wesley the farm boy, be "slightly dead." The difference lies in what can bring you back to life, and in this case how much exhaustion you have afterwards. "Death" can mean completely dead, or it could mean dying.

Besides, I'm not really after an opinion on what the rule literally says as much as a discussion on how to elegantly and reasonably handle the 6th level of exhaustion. It seems more than a little bit silly to me to tell my players "So, yeah... if you're beaten unconscious with an axe your buddy there can stabilize you, but if you lose consciousness in 'frigid water' you better hope your chilled corpse gets dragged back to the temple district with full pockets."

 

[The Crimson Binome]

To me it seems like saying "oh, an effect that causes a condition that kills you isn't actually an effect killing you" sounds like some serious rules-lawyering.

From a practical standpoint, it's less that we're trying to find a legal loophole, and more that there's no mechanical way to resolve it. If you're dead by exhaustion, then there's no point where you're "almost dead by exhaustion" which the spell could set you back to and which the spell could prevent.

Unless you have a Ray of Exhaustion or a weird dragon breath effect that causes instant exhaustion and is capable of killing someone, I mean. If someone hits you with a magical exhaustion effect, then it would be simple enough to say that the Death Ward prevents that in the same way that it would save you from a fireball that took you to zero.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I think they intend Death Ward to work against exaustion. I think arguing that it is not an effect is semanticsat its worst.

But of course, you are free to do what you like.

And to the OP: feel free to make up nearly dead situations if it makes you feel better about being mean with so many exaustion checks, that's cool, but level six exaustion is meant to mean "dead".

Sent from my LG-D852 using EN World mobile app

 

[GX.Sigma]

The difference lies in what can bring you back to life, and in this case how much exhaustion you have afterwards.

Oh, I see. Yes, this is an interesting discussion. I'll address this in a bit, but first I'd like to respond to the rest of your post:

"Death" can mean completely dead, or it could mean dying.

No, "dying" is what happens when you are reduced to 0 hit points:
If you're "dying," you're in trouble. If it gets bad enough (three failed saves), you die.

Exhaustion is essentially just a slower version of "dying":
If you're exhausted, you're in trouble. If it gets bad enough (six levels), you die.

These are two separate systems that do a very similar thing. Maybe it would be more elegant if they were connected in some way, but they kinda added the exhaustion rules at the last minute, so it's a little sloppy. D&D 5e is unfortunately not seamless.

It seems more than a little bit silly to me to tell my players "So, yeah... if you're beaten unconscious with an axe your buddy there can stabilize you, but if you lose consciousness in 'frigid water' you better hope your chilled corpse gets dragged back to the temple district with full pockets."

Losing consciousness in extreme cold is like losing consciousness in a room full of goblins that repeatedly stab you. In the cold, it's the sixth level of exhaustion that kills you. In the goblin room, it's the third failed death save that kills you. Either way, you're dead if you're there too long.

And while I'm at it:

If you're dead by exhaustion, then there's no point where you're "almost dead by exhaustion" which the spell could set you back to and which the spell could prevent.

Yes there is. Level 5 Exhaustion is "almost dead by exhaustion."

The difference lies in what can bring you back to life, and in this case how much exhaustion you have afterwards.

Spells like Death Ward and Raise Dead were clearly not written with the exhaustion rules in mind (probably because, as stated above, the exhaustion rules were added after the fact). So there is a hole in the rules that we need to patch. I like the Death Ward solution floated upthread, where Death Ward can prevent you from gaining the final level of exhaustion.

As for Raise Dead--it brings you back at 1 hp, completely reversing the "dying" system, so I'm tempted to say it brings you back at 0 exhaustion. But the last paragraph says "coming back from the dead is an ordeal," and lays out an exceptional system that seems very similar to exhaustion. Looks like the designers forgot to revise this after they came up with the exhaustion rules. My solution: Remove the weird -4 penalty thing. The target comes back at Level 5 Exhaustion (regardless of their exhaustion level before death). Rest easy son, you've had a busy day.

Resurrection has a similar clause, so I'd use the same solution. True Resurrection brings you back good as new, so I'd say you come back with no exhaustion.

 

[jasper]

Thread drift. Hmm. I wonder if a can get that type of death on my skull.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Yes there is. Level 5 Exhaustion is "almost dead by exhaustion."

Level 5 exhaustion describes your state for the entire day prior to the instant when you die of starvation. It equally describes the point where you have 23 hours and 59 minutes before you die and the point where you have one minute until you die.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Level 5 exhaustion describes your state for the entire day prior to the instant when you die of starvation. It equally describes the point where you have 23 hours and 59 minutes before you die and the point where you have one minute until you die.

So? What does that have to do with anything? Being at zero hit points could mean you have anywhere from almost zero seconds to live (ie - it's just before your turn and you already have 2 strikes and you're about to fail the third) to almost zero seconds before you get back up again (it's just before your turn on 2 strikes and you roll a 20) to 1d4 hours before you stand up (you were on 2 strikes and 2 successes and you roll a success). Being on 1 hit point is even more variable.

 

[jaelis]

As for Raise Dead--it brings you back at 1 hp, completely reversing the "dying" system, so I'm tempted to say it brings you back at 0 exhaustion. But the last paragraph says "coming back from the dead is an ordeal," and lays out an exceptional system that seems very similar to exhaustion. Looks like the designers forgot to revise this after they came up with the exhaustion rules. My solution: Remove the weird -4 penalty thing. The target comes back at Level 5 Exhaustion (regardless of their exhaustion level before death). Rest easy son, you've had a busy day.

I like that idea

Though I might make it level 3 instead.