Death of the LGS

[mlund]

"Then I guess you don't know everything about [business]." —Princess Leia



Business is a power struggle. There's no such thing as corporate etiquette. There's a reason they say it's "dog eat dog". If you're not the one doing the pushing and pulling, then you're the one being pushed and pulled. Simple as that. Whether it's Amazon or it's WOTC, one of them is doing the threatening and the other one is doing the cowering, and I think it's clear in this situation which is which.

That's a wonderful exercise is baseless rhetoric, "full of sound and fury; signifying nothing," so penned the Bard.

You've offered nothing to substantiate your claims. I disagree with your claim the "it's clear in this situation which is which." As I've already noted, there are competitors in the market that would take Amazon's market share. Left with no evidence that Amazon is "pushing" WotC into letting them break the street date and nothing much more than your vehement distastes for Amazon, I'm laying this one firmly at the feet of your personal biases.

The problem with mlund's reasoning is that he presupposes that things like bulk discounts are natural, immutable facts. They're not.

No, sir. While I do not disagree with the model you further espouse in your post that is a Straw Man you've got right here.

Volume discounts certainly are not immutable and I have no desire to portray them as such - though I think they are as "natural" as anything else such as Economies of Scale.

Higher Volume + Lower Risk can justify a Lower Price.

Wizards of the Coast doesn't have to offer that bulk discount.

They certainly don't have to. They don't have to turn a profit either. Rather, it is in their best interests to turn a profit, and they believe it is in their best interest to offer the bulk discount.

If they believed that online distribution was doing damage to the overall health of Dungeons and Dragons, they could end bulk discounts instantly. In fact, if they believed that deep discounting was harming the overall health of their product line, they could establish a price floor at will, simply by putting it into the contract for the purchase of their products for resale.

I believe I've already asserted "If they damage the D&D, WotC, or Hasbro brands it is certainly in Wizard's power and best interests to cut them loose."

- Marty Lund

 

[Falkus]

Their prices will be higher due to lack of competition

I'm fairly certain that the various different retailers on the internet compete with each other, rather than being some sort of evil cartel run by a mastermind planning on eliminating roleplaying entirely (ooh, new Spycraft campaign idea).

 

[Silver Moon]

Apologies for bringing up the economy - I thought that mentioning the situation of my friend's store would be relevant to the topic. The point that I was trying to make is that having a diversified product line helps.

 

[Corjay]

That's a wonderful exercise is baseless rhetoric, "full of sound and fury; signifying nothing," so penned the Bard.

You've offered nothing to substantiate your claims. I disagree with your claim the "it's clear in this situation which is which." As I've already noted, there are competitors in the market that would take Amazon's market share. Left with no evidence that Amazon is "pushing" WotC into letting them break the street date and nothing much more than your vehement distastes for Amazon, I'm laying this one firmly at the feet of your personal biases.

Well seeing as I have no personal bias against Amazon, you would be completely wrong in this assumption. I don't see proofs on your side, either. OH LOOK! Pure air! They call those opinions, which is all this thread has been. Somehow suddenly we're supposed to accept your lack of support as superior to mine? Please. A high horse doesn't make you taller. It just makes you higher.

 

[Storyteller01]

I'm fairly certain that the various different retailers on the internet compete with each other, rather than being some sort of evil cartel run by a mastermind planning on eliminating roleplaying entirely (ooh, new Spycraft campaign idea).

Yeah I'm probably being a bit over dramatic about it. Still, we've seen similar patterns. It'll only hurt the game in the long run.

 

[Falkus]

It'll only hurt the game in the long run.

Given that my interactions with local game stores has tended more towards 'exercise in frustration' rather than 'helpful to my gaming habits', I don't really see what difference it'll make. The important bit is the group and the rules, I don't really see how it matters where I get the rules from.

 

[GSHamster]

In fact, if they believed that deep discounting was harming the overall health of their product line, they could establish a price floor at will, simply by putting it into the contract for the purchase of their products for resale.

This is slightly more complicated. Until last year, price floors used to be illegal. The US Supreme Court only reversed that in June of 2007 (Leegin v. PSKS).

I'd imagine that WotC Legal really doesn't want to be the first to test this new law out, especially against someone with as deep pockets as Amazon.com. Especially when it's still unproven that the discounting actually harms the hobby. Remember that 4E outsold 3.5E which outsold 3E. There's no real demonstrative proof that internet retailing/discounting is harming the hobby.

 

[Corjay]

This is slightly more complicated. Until last year, price floors used to be illegal. The US Supreme Court only reversed that in June of 2007 (Leegin v. PSKS).

I'd imagine that WotC Legal really doesn't want to be the first to test this new law out, especially against someone with as deep pockets as Amazon.com. Especially when it's still unproven that the discounting actually harms the hobby. Remember that 4E outsold 3.5E which outsold 3E. There's no real demonstrative proof that internet retailing/discounting is harming the hobby.

This is really where I think things go off track, when people equate the effects of the LGS going out with the inability of RPG's to be distributed. It's clear that LGS's barely touch overall RPG sales these days. In the 80's, yes, the LGS was the bread and butter of the RPG industry, but today it's just not. That's why the LGS needs to diversify if it's going to survive.

So, have we gotten anywhere in the last couple of pages with helpful information about how to help the LGS attract RPG customers?

 

[Cadfan]

This is slightly more complicated. Until last year, price floors used to be illegal. The US Supreme Court only reversed that in June of 2007 (Leegin v. PSKS).

I am aware of the case.

I'd imagine that WotC Legal really doesn't want to be the first to test this new law out, especially against someone with as deep pockets as Amazon.com.

They wouldn't be the first to test it. Companies are already doing this, even within the gaming community. See, eg, Mayfair Games.

Especially when it's still unproven that the discounting actually harms the hobby. Remember that 4E outsold 3.5E which outsold 3E. There's no real demonstrative proof that internet retailing/discounting is harming the hobby.

Agreed. I actually said this in the post to which you're responding.

No, sir. While I do not disagree with the model you further espouse in your post that is a Straw Man you've got right here.

While I do not doubt your intentions, or your personal understanding of economics, I think that if you review the actual paragraphs that you have actually written in this thread, you will find the writings of a person who is treating bulk discounts as if they were some natural effect of the market far outside the control of Wizards of the Coast.

 

[GSHamster]

I am aware of the case.

They wouldn't be the first to test it. Companies are already doing this, even within the gaming community. See, eg, Mayfair Games.

My point was, which I should have made more explicit, is that it's too short a time span from Leegin to actually infer anything from WotC's behavior. Legal departments move slowly and cautiously when dealing with new law.

The fact that they chose not to implement price floors for 4E doesn't really say anything one way or another whether WotC believes price floors are a good idea.