Death - should the departed's family have an intrinsic right to the body?

[Umbran]

What, and then you'll enact the appropriate laws?

No, but my opinion might change. I do that on occasion, you know - change my opinion based on solid information.

 

[miniaturehoarder]

( redacted )

 

[miniaturehoarder]

From what I've read, this is an area subject to strong disagreements, with a very predictable alignments of the argument for and against. The space seems ... unstable, with arguments very likely to heat up.

Oh yes, this topic is a potential nuke. It pits political ideologies, religious beliefs and family tragedies head to head in a manner that could give a Pachycephalosaurus a migraine.

 

[delericho]

That 5 million is an aberration to discuss for another thread, but yeah, there is a legal frame around estate taxes. It isn't like there wouldn't be one around organs.

The problem is that that legal frame takes considerable time to work through, especially if there are challenges to the initial assessment (which is not uncommon, especially with larger estates). When dealing with estates, that's not a problem - it's a nuisance while the process works through but they'll get there in the end.

With organ donation they can't wait while the process goes through. There's a fairly narrow window of opportunity for harvesting vital organs, and once it closes it doesn't reopen.

 

[Kramodlog]

That makes it functionally equivalent to a less efficient version of the status quo- no need to change the law.

Still better than the present situation.

Doesn't cover minors and assorted otherwise qualified- and potentially willing- nonvoters.

Austrian law is pretty interesting. Either have a ID card on you that says you opted out or use the national registry.
http://www.bmeia.gv.at/en/embassy/c...ing-to-austria/organ-donation-in-austria.html

It is pretty simple and Austria hasn't devolved into an organ harvesting dictatorship... Yet.

It also doesn't mesh well with the current political atmosphere in which voter suppression tactics are being used to purge the rolls.

Wouldn't a national voter ID card issued to anyone who registers to vote crush voter supression tactics? Or what Clinton is proposing, register once and you're registered for life. This is how it works here.

It doesn't mesh well with decisions regarding those with a legal inability to consent or deny.

As always, legal guardians are there for some reason. But it doesn't matter, when your dead, your dead, whether your 10 year old or mentally challenged.

 

[Kramodlog]

The problem is that that legal frame takes considerable time to work through, especially if there are challenges to the initial assessment (which is not uncommon, especially with larger estates). When dealing with estates, that's not a problem - it's a nuisance while the process works through but they'll get there in the end.

With organ donation they can't wait while the process goes through. There's a fairly narrow window of opportunity for harvesting vital organs, and once it closes it doesn't reopen.

I mean you work out the legal details of the opt-out system before putting it in place. Seems to work for Austria, Belgium and Spain.

I'm sure there are kinks in the system and they aren't above lawsuits, but so what? No human made law or institution will be perfect. Imperfection doesn't mean it shouldn't be put in place.

 

[Kramodlog]

The real point to it was about property rights - unless you don't pay, the government cannot order you to pay your taxes with any specific piece of property.

You just named an instance of guvernment seizing private property. And if you do not want to, you opt-out. Pretty simple.

It isn't reflexive. It is considered.

I disagree on that one.

 

[Umbran]

Wouldn't a national voter ID card issued to anyone who registers to vote crush voter supression tactics? Or what Clinton is proposing, register once and you're registered for life. This is how it works here.

Not in the least. One of the most common suppression tactics is to try to require an ID, and then make it difficult to get an ID - lots of folks in lower income brackets can't take a day off work to go and stand in line at a registrar's office, or don't have permanent addresses, copies of birth certificates, and the other things that the'd use to prove who they are.

 

[Umbran]

I disagree on that one.

Because you are a telepath? You know what's going on inside my head better than I do, to know if I am reacting reflexively, or with consideration? Despite never having had a conversation with me except in plain text, and not much of that, even?

Right. Sure.

We are done here, goldomark. You were doing well for a while, but this isn't acceptable. Please learn to stop before you make such statements in the future.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is the classic start of argument territory. Do not do what goldo here has just done, as it is pretty darned rude.

 

[Kramodlog]

Not in the least. One of the most common suppression tactics is to try to require an ID, and then make it difficult to get an ID - lots of folks in lower income brackets can't take a day off work to go and stand in line at a registrar's office, or don't have permanent addresses, copies of birth certificates, and the other things that the'd use to prove who they are.

Yup, but if the federal guvernment issues a voter ID for all voters who register, the question of mandatory IDs is taken care of as that ID is provided. Now the urdle becomes registration, but that is another issue.