Deathjump Spiders - Too Tough?

[Stalker0]

My 4th level group (paladin, rogue, wizard, cleric, warlord, warlock) went against 3 deathjump spiders, a swarm of spiders, and 6 spider minions.

It was an intense fight, my wizard has 4 hp from death and we got hurt pretty bad but made it out.

The deathjumps are definately strong, I wouldn't say overpowered necessarily. They are a monster that I think is very party dependent though. A wizard that can stop or slow down their movement is a godsend, without that, they can just target and kill whichever party member they want.

 

[Tellerve]

But anytime a wizard can slow down a skirmisher that is a good thing. As far as party dependent, look at them in comparison to the Fey Panther which is another sneaky pounce like level 4 skirmisher.

If your wizard slowed both of them down, I'd certainly prefer to be in front of the panther, instead of the deathjump spider as written.

Tellerve

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Whoa. Can you recall what the original mechanic was? Given how brutal the damage is for the current "at will" version, I can't even imagine how nasty the recharge version had to be...

Sorry I'm late.

It was only +1d6 damage before, and recharge, but at +9 to hit, it hit often.

As for the attack bonus, I guess that could be part of the problem my group has been facing. Most of their PCs have tended to have fairly low AC (13, 15, 16, 19 in the party that was TPK'ed by two deathjumps). Hence, even a +6 attack has a pretty good chance of hitting them.

Why so low?

IMC we have a fighter with a starting AC of 18 or 19; it was so low because he's using a two-handed weapon. (Not the best move at low levels.)

 

[ulrikbb]

In the Deathjump Spider tactics entry, I believe it says that they run away if they are bloodied, so if you play them that way, they actually only have half hit points.

 

[Tellerve]

That's certainly true, although I feel like a lot of DMs don't have creatures break for escape/flee until it is far too late. But certainly something to consider, however, if a deathjump spider hits and does max damage, assuming you don't have a paladin or some power to allow a saving throw before your turn, you would take 26 (3d6+3 + 5 poison) pts of damage from a full on bite, and be prone, and be slowed. It just seems overly nasty to me when lined up against other monsters of its level and type.

Having said that, slow was mentioned earlier, and while I'm pretty sure it would work against their giant jump power, I'm not positive. But if it did, 2 speed isn't much of an escape.

Tellerve

 

[Lancelot]

Why so low?

IMC we have a fighter with a starting AC of 18 or 19; it was so low because he's using a two-handed weapon. (Not the best move at low levels.)

Yeah, similar thing in my party. The fighter was a 2-hander; the other three characters were a ranger (AC 16), warlock (AC 15), and a wizard (AC 13). The guys are still struggling to rework their 3.5 mindsets (as am I), so things like the wizard taking Leather Armor Prof for the AC bonus are a bit alien.

Based on the general consensus, I'm thinking I'll probably lay off the deathjumps for a while... or lower their damage output. Even turning "Death from Above" into a recharge power, their basic damage is still nasty for a lurker. At average 15 damage + slow (incl. 1st round poison), they're up there with the brutes when just standing toe-to-toe... and with a considerably better AC. Knocking of a point or two of AC and lowering the damage by a d6 in all circumstances might be the answer.

 

[Tony Vargas]

We just faced a Deathjump Spider in KoTS, as part of a second wave in a larger combat. It did not live up to it's fearsome reputation. It only got in two attacks before we killed it, one was negated by a Shield spell, the other simply missed the high-AC Paladin who marked it. If it had fled when bloodied per it's standard tactics it wouldn't even have done that much. I was a little disapointed, I was looking forward to using 'Pin the Foe' on a shift-happy Deathjump.

I was curious to see if our DM would rule that it could use 'Death From Above' without shifting at all. Opinions?

 

[Kaelkatar]

When clearing a small temple I had the party of 6 L7 players face a handful of L7 or 8 encounters, as well as a L4 encounter with a blade spider and 3 deathjumps, the spider encounter was said by one to be easily the hardest encounter of the temple.

 

[brehobit]

Yeah, similar thing in my party. The fighter was a 2-hander; the other three characters were a ranger (AC 16), warlock (AC 15), and a wizard (AC 13). The guys are still struggling to rework their 3.5 mindsets (as am I), so things like the wizard taking Leather Armor Prof for the AC bonus are a bit alien.

Dude, using point-buy I don't think anyone should have an AC worse than 17 at 1st level.

That's some pretty terrible ACs. Our party is something like: Fighter (20), Wizard (18), Ranger (18), Warlord (17 or 18 I don't recall). This at 1st level.

Mark

 

[chaotix42]

I was curious to see if our DM would rule that it could use 'Death From Above' without shifting at all. Opinions?

When I used deathjump spiders I ran the shift as optional - it certainly reads that way. During play I felt that the power would be more evocative if the spiders had to move before attacking to represent a powerful leap upon their prey. I may play them this way in the future.