Defeated by puzzle - campaign over: Here is the offending puzzle!

[DonTadow]

As a dm i must say there are a lot of pampered players here.

No I would likely not hinge a campaign on the players ability to solve a puzzle but I would be gleefully willing to make it very important. Perhaps even vital to have a decent shot at completing an adventure.

And yes there are things/creatures/locations in my game world that would just flat kill the players if they went there and No theres isn't a way of gauging if its too dangerous except by heresay or trial and error.

Of course the game must be fun but that goes both ways and for me as a dm it means the game has to be somewhat believable too. There are actions and consequences and they are not tailored towards the players but as to how I think the world will react.

And a dm has no obligation at all to disclose his ideas, puzzles or plots even though the game is over. He might want to use them again in another setting/situation. Or he might just like to the mystery going on and in general freaking out his players.

Maybe this dm thinks that the puzzle was to tought this time but have come up with a great idea of how to provide a clue that could make it easier the next he uses it.

So cut down on that critisism, you don't (amd can't) know the full story. Who is to say that the players did not miss some obvious clue (in the room or at an earlier time) and the dm (rightfully) decided to let the chips fall as they may.

My hat is off to him for sticking with his decision and not playing deux e machina.

I'm sorry, but your argument is flawed and has been proven wrong already by the various other posts that you have been too lazy to skim through. Then to call people who have been playing this game for years pampered is an ensult to the Enworld community. But let me reiterate what someone said on this page. There is a difference between a level 30 encounter, creature and trap and a puzzle that is "level 30". If I were to say, start this campaign off at level 30 and sent my level 30 group into this place, would I get the answer any easier. I'm ashamed at you putting the word DM in front of your title. I have no respect for DMs who seek the TPK. What it seems you are saying is that you can not make a game believable without seeking or learning how to avoid a TPK . I just don't see where a TPK is fun for any DM> Not a DM whom cares about his players. I don't design adventures , campaigns and encounteres to kill the party. Even dealing with a static dungeon, I don't see any sense in putting calculus and trig problems in my cave to make it "cr 30". As a matter of fact I want you to pull me a puzzlebook.

All the crystal dungoens on my campaign are created as static dungeons and I put enough lore and wards on them so that the players know that it is beyond their level.

I think someone said it earlier, there is no such thing as a cr 30 puzzle or riddle because you're dealing with the players knowledge, not the character's at this point. Unless the only way to solve this puzzle is with a wish or miracle.

The only way I could see this making any sense is if there waas a hidden block in the room that only a search of ...say 40 or 50 could make. Under that box is a wish of some sorts.

Roman has put up with a lot of crap and I don't think any players need to go through this. I What is frustrating us as a collective is the fact that this DM ended his campaign on this one puzzle. That is just not good dm'n. Its showing that you either did not appreciate your own campaign enough nor the players. Even if i was trying to teach a DM lesson, "I'd let one or two people escape somehow". HOw can there be any "lore of this dungeon" if no one lives to tell about it... again MOOT.

And, if you read earlier posts, you'd know that they felt they properly investigated this temple, and there was no mention in their research of this puzzle.

I"ve been around these boards long enough to spot some of the talent and rpg knowledge some of the posters have, and I dont believe in anyway these guys are coddling players. They just don't believe that killing parties intentially is in the DM contract

 

[Tom Cashel]

...to call people who have been playing this game for years pampered is an ensult to the Enworld community.

ENsults are the only kind of insults allowed on EN World.

Just have to say...this thread and the situation which (may or may not have) started it are annoying to hear about, and it's maddening that we can't get an answer to the darn thing. I'm with you.

But...

Those of you talking about (I'm paraphrasing) rounding up those kinds of DMs to be shot, what a terrible DM they are, what a terrible person they are, what a "bad" DM they are, and (jokingly or not) suggesting that bodily harm is the only way to fix the guy's wagon...

Put down the dice and GET A GRIP. Criminy.

 

[Algolei]

Well, I happen to agree, there do seem to be a lot of pampered players on these boards. All this moaning and groaning, "Bad DM!" Just seems to me a lot of people are used to working with a net.

Roman, I see no reason anywhere in this entire thread why your DM shouldn't keep this puzzle for use another time. I believe there is a solution because your DM says there is. If he gives you a clue, I for one still want to hear it. And I'm not done with this puzzle yet!

 

[Pielorinho]

Moderator's Notes

Calling people lazy? Telling folks to get a grip? Have y'all missed the previous moderator warnings?

DO NOT ENGAGE IN PERSONAL ATTACKS.

I'm going to close this thread, due to the people ignoring the ENWorld rules here. Roman, if you get an update on this situation and want to open a new thread, I invite you to do so.

Daniel