Defeating bad guy twice = double XP???

[Chupacabra]

After a two-session-long battle taking up about 7 hours total, my players caused the Big Bad Evil Guy to flee and bumped off a good deal of his minions. Now comes the XP awards. Obviously they get full XP for those minions who fell based on CR, and I know that you can get XP for "defeating" foes which does not necessarily mean killing them, but what should I give 'em for defeating the BBEG and his surviving minions?

If I award them full xp, what if he and his forces come back in a month or so and get driven off or killed then, do the players get NO XP for that 2nd victory??

I know there are "story awards" or "goal awards" of XP, and certainly the party will be entitled to that. They stopped the bad guy's plans, so they are getting XP in that respect. I'm just a little confused about what portion to give them of the BBEG's CR-based XP. Thanks.

 

[Sithobi1]

They would get all of the XP, both times. All XP is based off goals. That's all a CR is, the relative difficulty of the goals. In this case, monster CRs are where the goal is to defeat a monster. I'd say they succeeded.

 

[Chupacabra]

Ah ha, I never looked at CR-based XP that way. Heh, and I've been doing this for a L O N G time. Thats why I love this board. I always learn something new.

 

[bestone]

Subjective, thats up to you, if you think they "defeated" him, then yes, feel free to award double experince

If however, you feel he cleverly eluded thier capture by using his minions as fodder then perhaps not, expecially if he was thier goal, and they failed to stop him, and perhaps sure they kill his minions, but he gets away with some vile evil plan anyways

If he took a big part in the battle, you should award some experience, because with that risk, there should be reward. If one of the pc's had died because of the bbeg, you woudlnt want to say well he got away so you get nothing? would ya

 

[RigaMortus2]

Subjective, thats up to you, if you think they "defeated" him, then yes, feel free to award double experince

If however, you feel he cleverly eluded thier capture by using his minions as fodder then perhaps not, expecially if he was thier goal, and they failed to stop him, and perhaps sure they kill his minions, but he gets away with some vile evil plan anyways

If he took a big part in the battle, you should award some experience, because with that risk, there should be reward. If one of the pc's had died because of the bbeg, you woudlnt want to say well he got away so you get nothing? would ya

Fortunately XP is based off of the PCs succeeding at their goal in defeating the encounter, not the NPC "succeeding" in his goal of eluding them.

 

[bestone]

Fortunately XP is based off of the PCs succeeding at their goal in defeating the encounter, not the NPC "succeeding" in his goal of eluding them.

Thats not what i was meaning, and xp is based off whatever the dm decides it is, i dont see there being any rule that says the dm MUST give xp for something running away

Quote from the dmg

"You must decide when a challenge has been overcome, Usually this is did the pc's defeat the enemy in battle? then they met the challenge and earned experience points. Other times it can be trickier. Suppose the pc's sneak past the sleeping minotaur to get to the magic vault, did they overcome the encounter? if the goal was to get into the vault and the minotaur was just a guardian, then yes. Its up to you to make such judgements."

Continuing with that, if thier goal, like i said, was to stop him, lets say, from killing everyone in some small town, and he easilly eludes you and gets away, you didnt really defeat him, did you? Does that mean you shouldnt get xp? not necessarially

What i was saying, is you run into the bbeg, with his minions, and he sends his minions at you, then turns tail and runs, you dont get anything for him. If you'd read it, i even elaborated, if he doesnt take part in the battle, i wouldnt give the players anything for him. What did i go on to say? if he does take part, you should give experience.

Like i said, subjective, if purely making the bad guy run away was thier goal, then sure, if saving the town from the bbeg, then maybey, SUBJECTIVE... *shakes head*

 

[RigaMortus2]

Thats not what i was meaning, and xp is based off whatever the dm decides it is, i dont see there being any rule that says the dm MUST give xp for something running away

Characters earn experience points by defeating opponents and overcoming challenges. At the end of each adventure, the DM assigns experience to the characters based on what they have accomplished.

If the PCs accomplished their task of "defeating" (such a broad term) the BBEG, then they should get XP for it, no? Of course, the DM does have final say in whether or not they made any accomplishments, but I can't see how any sane DM would say "defeating" the BBEG isn't one.

Continuing with that, if thier goal, like i said, was to stop him, lets say, from killing everyone in some small town, and he easilly eludes you and gets away, you didnt really defeat him, did you? Does that mean you shouldnt get xp? not necessarially

I would say if you were closing in on him, but never encountered him, and he eludes you, you would not get XP for defeating him. If, however, he did not get to kill everyone in the town, because the PCs showed up and forced him to run, you would get XP for accomplishing that task.

What i was saying, is you run into the bbeg, with his minions, and he sends his minions at you, then turns tail and runs, you dont get anything for him. If you'd read it, i even elaborated, if he doesnt take part in the battle, i wouldnt give the players anything for him. What did i go on to say? if he does take part, you should give experience.

I'd say ordering minions to attack would be considered "taking part in the battle". Just because he didn't deal damage or cast a spell, doesn't mean he didn't take part in the battle. He was part of the encounter (he was there when the PCs showed up), he sent his minions after the party, and he escaped before the PCs could get to him. Is the town still safe? Did he push the little red button that says "NUKE" on it before he fled?

Like i said, subjective, if purely making the bad guy run away was thier goal, then sure, if saving the town from the bbeg, then maybey, SUBJECTIVE... *shakes head*

I think if by the end of the encounter, the enemy is no longer an immediate threat, you've "defeated" him. This could be the enemy knocked unconcious, dead, bound, surrendered, or fleeing. If he flees, sure he'll be back to wreak havoc again, but I see it as him being part of the encounter and being defeated in one form or another.

 

[bestone]

If the PCs accomplished their task of "defeating" (such a broad term) the BBEG, then they should get XP for it, no? Of course, the DM does have final say in whether or not they made any accomplishments, but I can't see how any sane DM would say "defeating" the BBEG isn't one.

Your just said what i said multiple times, SUBJECTIVE, i never once said they shouldnt get experience for defeating one, not once, like i said, entirely subjective, if he runs away and a)destroys the town, then perhaps not b) leaves and goes away, then perhaps yes. again, all subjective

I would say if you were closing in on him, but never encountered him, and he eludes you, you would not get XP for defeating him. If, however, he did not get to kill everyone in the town, because the PCs showed up and forced him to run, you would get XP for accomplishing that task.

Right.....i think thats a rather obvious statement? and irrelivent to what i was saying

I'd say ordering minions to attack would be considered "taking part in the battle". Just because he didn't deal damage or cast a spell, doesn't mean he didn't take part in the battle. He was part of the encounter (he was there when the PCs showed up), he sent his minions after the party, and he escaped before the PCs could get to him. Is the town still safe? Did he push the little red button that says "NUKE" on it before he fled?

you can say that all you want, thats your opinion, your entitled to it. Who says his minions wouldnt attack anyways? Would you really award the pc's experience for something worth a lot of it, just because it was hanging around when battle started? I wouldnt even consider it part of the encounter if it escaped right away, and again, thats based on opinion, arguing points of opinion is pointless. You then go on to say is the town still safe? did he press the button, and like i said, its subjective, i dont get the point your trying to make? your basically going into more detail and agreeing that its all subjective? which is what im saying

I think if by the end of the encounter, the enemy is no longer an immediate threat, you've "defeated" him. This could be the enemy knocked unconcious, dead, bound, surrendered, or fleeing. If he flees, sure he'll be back to wreak havoc again, but I see it as him being part of the encounter and being defeated in one form or another.

Again, subjective, If he runs without ever taking part, its up to the dm to make a call. I'll agree with you tho, if you knock him out, kill him, bind him, you deserve experience, fleeing and subjecting is subjective, it depends entirely on the situation. Your entitled to whatever opinions you want, and can make whatever calls you want, you can consider him part of the encounter all you want for just being there with his minions, thats your call, but theres no hard rule telling me i have too

 

[bestone]

To chupacabra:

Basically man, theres no rule set in stone for this, its up to your discretion and opinion. Know that if it was a challenge (ie cr) to the players, or posed some sort of risk, they should definetly get a reward, but its up to you, you can adjust whatever numbers to fit you like. If you think they didnt "defeat" him by making him flee, that it simple inconvenienced him but didnt thwart his plans, then its up to you to decide if theres any reward for that.

There are some guidelines out there to help, but as the dm its up to you

 

[Starglim]

If you have to fight the bad guy again, clearly you didn't defeat him properly the first time and you should have only got half XP, if that, on that occasion.

At most, I'd try to give the difference between the XP he was worth the first time and the second time, but I can see that this would run into serious problems if the PCs had gained levels in the meantime.

edit: If the PCs gained experience for preventing the bad guy destroying the town because he fled the battle, that should have been a story award, not monster XP.