Defeating bad guy twice = double XP???

[Chupacabra]

Sounds more like the DM did what he could to save his own bad guys.

This is pretty much where I, the DM, was coming from. I thought that the pirates would not fight to the last man if there was a hope of escape. Bullies are sometimes the biggest cowards as well. Also, the big bad guy leaders knew that in a scant few more moments (less than 8 rounds or so) a whole slew of buff spells cast on their (surviving) minions, were due to expire. Said minions were juiced-up big time with Enlarge, Bull Strength, Bear's Endurance and some AC-boost spells. Once all that faded, the minions would have returned to just being mildly irritating mooks to the rampaging PC's (who did not realize they were facing juiced-up "normal" combatants -- they thought they were facing a heretofore unknown sub-race of super-goblinoids ). Once a PC fell, the bad guys seized the opportunity to escape with their skins and their loot intact.

Did the PC's then lose? I don't think so. They soundly thumped the baddies and forced them to abandon their scheme of wrecking ships. The only problem is that they did not kill 'em all off and they let a TON of loot (including a nifty magic boat...) literally sail away into the fog.

I think I'll give 'em full XP this time...AND next, if/when these pirates reappear in the campaign.

 

[Harm]

I think I'll give 'em full XP this time...AND next, if/when these pirates reappear in the campaign.

The next village they rape and pillage won't think they were beaten.

 

[Nifft]

I give full XP. Even if no-one dies.

Depends on what kind of game you want to run, really. Do you want to encourage recurring villains or encourage post-combat coup-de-grace duty?

Cheers, -- N

 

[KarinsDad]

I give full XP. Even if no-one dies.

Depends on what kind of game you want to run, really. Do you want to encourage recurring villains or encourage post-combat coup-de-grace duty?

One could give full XP for defeating the bad guys by capturing them. Killing them should not be the sole requirement for full XP, but letting them get away should not always be full XP either.


To get total XP, the PCs should be totally victorious. Partially victorious, partial XP.

 

[Nifft]

To get total XP, the PCs should be totally victorious. Partially victorious, partial XP.

If the goal is to capture the bad guy, then you get XP for capturing the bad guy, and much less (if any) for letting him get away.

If the goal is to take his MacGuffin, then you get XP for getting his MacGuffin -- even if you don't kill him or otherwise take his stuff.

Goals aren't always "kill them and take their stuff", though that is a perfectly valid goal.

-- N

 

[KarinsDad]

If the goal is to capture the bad guy, then you get XP for capturing the bad guy, and much less (if any) for letting him get away.

If the goal is to take his MacGuffin, then you get XP for getting his MacGuffin -- even if you don't kill him or otherwise take his stuff.

Goals aren't always "kill them and take their stuff", though that is a perfectly valid goal.

Agreed.

However, the only real thing the PCs accomplished here was to take the lighthouse away from the bad guys.

Although a good "mission goal", it does not deserve the same level of XP that preventing the bad guys from ever doing something like this again (i.e. death or incarceration) should. That is what full XP should be for. Not for parleying in order to save a PC. That's a suboptimal outcome and does not deserve full XP.

The PCs no more defeated the bandit leaders than the bandit leaders defeated the PCs. It was closer to a draw than a defeat. Sure, the PCs killed a bunch of mook minions and deserve full XP for them, but not for the bandit leaders.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Agreed.

However, the only real thing the PCs accomplished here was to take the lighthouse away from the bad guys.

Although a good "mission goal", it does not deserve the same level of XP that preventing the bad guys from ever doing something like this again (i.e. death or incarceration) should. That is what full XP should be for. Not for parleying in order to save a PC. That's a suboptimal outcome and does not deserve full XP.

In that case, in D&D you can never truly prevent someone from ever doing that again. Because those who are incarcerated can escape, and those who die can be brought back to life. So what is the difference if you make them flee, only to have them possibly come back and try again vs. killing them, only to have them possibly brought back to life and try again vs. incarcerating them, only to have them possibly escape and try again?

 

[KarinsDad]

In that case, in D&D you can never truly prevent someone from ever doing that again. Because those who are incarcerated can escape, and those who die can be brought back to life. So what is the difference if you make them flee, only to have them possibly come back and try again vs. killing them, only to have them possibly brought back to life and try again vs. incarcerating them, only to have them possibly escape and try again?

There is a major difference between the bad guys fleeing because the PCs are kicking their butts, and the bad guys fleeing and the PCs negotiating that solution (in this case, to save a fellow PC).

In one case, it's a defeat of the bad guys. In the other, it's a draw.

 

[Celebrim]

Imagine if instead of getting experience for defeating the bad guy, that the experience was a story award for 'saving the town' or 'rescueing the fair maiden'. Obviously, whether they drive the bad guy off or not, they should get the full story award.

But, do they deserve the same level of story award as the group which has permenently ended the threat to the town or the fair maiden's virtue? I don't think so. If this was story awards, you'd obviously assign a lower award to merely temporarily defeating the forces of evil than you would assign to a more final victory.

In the same fashion, when foes of the characters are merely driven off rather than killed/imprisoned/converted to good, the reward should be less.

I typically assign only half experience for driving off a foe (actually 1/4 since I typically assign only 1/2 experience or less for challenges, and make up the rest with story awards).

RigaMortus2 raises an interesting point about villains coming back from even 'final' solutions, but in each of those cases it is a matter of DM fiat that the events so described in fact occur. Unless the characters had reasonable reason to suspect that thier 'final' solution was not in fact final and could have reasonably taken steps to make it final, I see no reason to punish the characters for doing the best that they could of done under the circumstances.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

How many levels would Spiderman lose if he only got XP one per bad-guy fought and beaten?

I absolutely go nuts when the GM in a game I am playing pulls out ... "Well, you guys killed the three mountain lions and get 50XP each for those, but the bear had 1HP left when it ran away. Since you didn't chase down the bear in a mad-rage tracking it to its lair and slaughter it while it tries to heal in peace you get NO XP."

Obviously each new "encounter" should be a new chance to gain XP. If the encounter is easier than before (pirates are all hurt, spells are used up, morale is lower and people fight worse) then you should get less XP for the same battle, and likewise if the encounter is harder (the surviving pirates all gained a level, fully healed up, and are buffed to the gills with spells especially prepared to get revenge on the party) you should get more XP. Thats kinds how the whole CR thing works

0 CR of an ork in a rusty cage with no arms or legs begging for death
1/2 CR of a normal healthy orc warrior
2 CR of a normal healthy orc warrior with magic weapons and/or potions
99 CR of a normal healthy orc warrior an impenetrable fortress with an artifact of unlimited wishes

DS