Deflect Arrows

[Space Coyote]

Sorry if this was addressed before: I cant seem to find a search function on this Message Board. Anyway, On page 93 of the Players Handbook v3.5 there is the Deflect Arrows feat. It mentions that once per round, the character can deflect a ranged weapon attack that would have hit them. However, it does not mention anhy mchanics that wold calculate the success of this. I would conclude that the chance is automatic. Once per round a character with this feat can automatically repel 1 ranged weapon attack. Is this correct? In version 3.0 they had to make a Reflex save.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Sorry if this was addressed before: I cant seem to find a search function on this Message Board.

You have to pay for the search function, though you might also have limited success with Google "keyword(s) site:enworld.org".

Anyway, On page 93 of the Players Handbook v3.5 there is the Deflect Arrows feat. It mentions that once per round, the character can deflect a ranged weapon attack that would have hit them. However, it does not mention anhy mchanics that wold calculate the success of this. I would conclude that the chance is automatic. Once per round a character with this feat can automatically repel 1 ranged weapon attack. Is this correct? In version 3.0 they had to make a Reflex save.

Your conclusion is correct, given the limitations in the feat (one hand free, aware of the attack, not flat-footed, not a massive ranged weapon, and not generated by a spell effect).

 

[Shape D.]

Thats why I hate monks.

<ME> I rolled a 20
<DM> Cool, roll to confirm.
<ME> 18 so after modifiers thats a 32.
<DM> He deflects your dagger.
<ME> What a load of crap.

Here's the way I think It should work: Using deflect arrows should use your AoO. And the Reflex save should be re-instated (DC20).

Note: this would however give you the benifit of blocking more than one ranged weapon per round in conjunction with Combat reflexes.

 

[Infiniti2000]

As a counter-argument:

<DM> The 12-year-old thief weakly throws an egg at you. Roll a reflex save DC 20 to deflect.
<PC> Modified 19, failed.
<DM> Okay, you take no damage, but have egg on your face. The master archer fires a +5 flaming, shocking, frost arrow at you. He crits and confirms with a 43. Roll a reflex save DC 20 to deflect.
<PC> Modified 20, succeeded!

Your "reinstatement" rule only makes deflect arrows not suck if you require that the person take combat reflexes. More importantly is the above example, where unless you come up with some additional, complicated houserules, it's silly.

 

[Shape D.]

Then maybe a set DC wouldn't work that great. But automatic success doesn't make any sense to me. Especially on something I wouldn't consider that easy to do.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I can't agree with you more, there. I sure as heck wouldn't want to try deflecting an arrow from a composite longbow.

A static DC doesn't work IMO and I'm sure a dynamic value perhaps based on the attack roll would be better. It couldn't be equal to the attack roll, though, because attack rolls and saving throws are not based on the same 'units' so to speak (attack rolls will always be much higher). Maybe something like 10+attack roll-AC, but then you have to figure out what to do about natural 20 attack rolls vs. natural 20 saves. In the end, IMO, all the extra hassle is not worth it for the minor 'realistic' gain.

 

[Shape D.]

Too many rules.....Too confusing.......I'd hate this this game if I didn't love it so much.

 

[AuraSeer]

But automatic success doesn't make any sense to me. Especially on something I wouldn't consider that easy to do.

If you want the monk abilities to make sense, I'm afraid you are doomed to disappointment. Monks are supposed to be so highly trained, "impossible" tasks are a matter of course for them.

It's not easy to fall 30' onto stone and walk away completely unhurt, or run the 50-meter dash in world record time, or speak fluently to a stranger in a language you've never encountered, but monks of various levels can do all those things. None of those abilities requires a die roll, and they work just fine with no magic at all.

 

[Shape D.]

The difference there being Deflect arows is a feat open to any character, Not a monks special or spell like ability.

The Master Thrower Prc also gets this feat at 3rd level.

 

[c0mA]

Deflecting Arrows would be hard

Imagine a 1st level Fighter who took Deflect Arrows and is armed with a one-handed weapon and no shield (thus one hand is free).

Now imagine that 1st level Fighter is up against 3 Orc soldiers who happen to be henchmen of a 20th level Ranger (a hypothical exaggeration). This 20th level Ranger is a master with a bow, but because he took other Feats does not have Shot-on-the-Run.

The 3 Orcs are on three sides of the 1st level Fighter, two of them flanking.

The 20th level Ranger is within 30' of the 1st level Fighter and he somehow has had the True Strike spell placed upon his first attack against the Fighter. This 20th level Ranger also does not have Improved Precise Shot (he took other Feats), and the 3 Orcs and the 1st level Fighter keep moving enough that the Fighter normally recieves cover from at least one of the Orcs. Thus, the 20th level Ranger finds it necessary to move more than a 5' step and only takes one shot per round.

The 1st level Fighter is not flat footed and is aware of the 20th level Ranger.

Under the rules for Deflect Arrows, the 1st level Fighter can defend against the 3 Orcs (two of them are also flanking him), make his own attack, AND ALWAYS deflect the one arrow shot by the 20th level Ranger, regardless of how high the Ranger's attack roll is; even if that attack roll is boosted to +40 and the Fighter forgot his armor and has no DEX bonus whatsoever (AC 10).

Now this is a purely hypothetical situation and not likely to happen; the situation is just a demonstration of a possibility, not a probability, and to me shows that Deflect Arrows in the RAW is too black and white to be balanced in 3.5e.

So in my group, we do opposed attack rolls.