Deicide: The slaying of Cyric. 3.5 Epic

[ethandrew]

So here's the brief meat to the character. I need to flesh out background, finish equipment and such. Questions, comments, concerns?

[sblock=Roguish Character]Roguish Character

Roguish Character

Chaotic Neutral Male Changeling Rogue 7 | Fighter 2 | Warshaper 4 | Nightsong Enforcer 7

Patron Deity: TBD
Starting Region: TBD

EXP: 0

Strength 12 (+1) [10 base] - [2 racial] + [4 class]
Dexterity 32 (+12) [17 base] + [2 racial] + [5 LA] + [6 enhancement] + 4 [insight]
Constitution 26 (+8) [14 base] - [2 racial] + [4 class] + [6 enhancement] + 4 [insight]
Intelligence 16 (+3) [12 base] + [2 racial]
Wisdom 8 (-1) [10 base] - [2 racial]
Charisma 13 (+1) [11 base] + [2 racial]


Size: Medium
Age: ??
Height: ?’?”
Weight: ?? lb
Eyes: ??
Hair: ??
Skin: ??

[sblock=Appearance]...[/sblock]


Total Hit Points: 310

Speed: 30 feet

Armor Class: 39 = 10 + 8 [Armor] + 5 [Natural Armor] + 5 [ring] + 11 [dexterity]
Touch AC: 31
Flat-footed: 39

Initiative modifier: + 11 = + 11 [dexterity]
Fortitude save: + 24 = 11 [base] + 8 [constitution] + 5 [magic]
Reflex save: + 29 = 11 [base] + 11 [dexterity] + 5 [magic] + 2 [magic]
Will save: + 13 = 5 [base] - 1 [wisdom] + 5 [magic] + 4 [magic]
Attack (Natural): + 33 = 17 [base] + 11 [dexterity] + 5 [Amulet of Natural Fists]
Attack (missile): + 28 = 17 [base] + 11 [dexterity]
Grapple check: + 18 = 17 [base] + 1 [strength]

[sblock=Special]Sneak Attack: 9d6 (7d6 [class] + 2d6 [magic])
Trapfinding
Evasion
Trapsense: +2
Uncanny Dodge
Morphic Immunities: Immune to Stunning and Critical Hits
Morphic Weapons: As a move action, can grow natural weapons, dealing damage appropriate to form’s size
Morphic Body: +4 to Strength and +4 to Constitution
Morphic Healing: Grants Fast Healing 2. As a full-round action, success on a Concentration Check (DC equal to total damage sustained), it heals 10 damage.
Teamwork: Gains a +20 circumstance bonus on listen and spot checks to hear and see allies.
Agility Training: Reduces ACP on light armor by 2 (to a minimum of 0).
Skill Teamwork: +4 competence bonus to all allies within 30’ on Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, and Spot checks.
Flanking Teamwork: When Nightsong Enforcer flanks an opponent, the enforcer and all other allies who threaten the opponent get an additional +1 circumstance bonus on their attack rolls (in addition to normal flanking bonus).
Opportunist: Once per round, can make an attack of opportunity against an opponent who has just been injured in melee by another character.[/sblock]

Weapon proficiency: all simple weapons, all types of armor (light, medium, and heavy), shields (except tower shields).

Languages: Common, Elven, Abyssal, Celestial, Infernal, Goblin, Undercommon, Draconic, Auran, Aquan, Ignan, Terran, Dwarven, Sylvan

+5 Blurstrike Deadly Precision Wounding Sickle [1d4 + 6 + 1 Con crit x2]

Full Attack: +32/+32/+27/+27/+22/+22/+17 1d4 + 6 + 1 Con damage x2
Full Attack if Flanking: +37/+37/+32/+32/+27/+27/+22 1d4 + 6 + 1 Con Damage + 9d6

[sblock=Feats]1st: Two Weapon Fighting (PHB)
3rd: Weapon Finesse (PHB)
6th: Combat Reflexes (PHB)
8th: Improved Two Weapon Fighting (Fighter) (PHB)
9th: Weapon Focus (Sickle) (Fighter) (PHB)
9th: Vexing Flanker (PHB 2)
12th: Adaptable Flanker (PHB 2)
15th: Greater Two Weapon Fighting (PHB)
18th: Disembowling Strike (CS)[/sblock]

[sblock=Skills]Appraise + 3 = + 3 [Int]
Balance + 11 = + 11 [Dex]
Bluff + 13 = + 10 [ranks] + 1 [Cha] + 2 [racial]
Climb + 1 = + 1 [Str]
Concentration + 8 = + 8 [Con]
Craft +3= + 3 [Int]
Diplomacy + 5 = + 1 [Cha] + 4 [synergy]
Disable Device + 20 = + 17 [ranks] + 3 [Int]
Disguise + 34 = + 21 [ranks] + 1 [Cha] + 2 [synergy] + 10 [racial]
Escape Artist + 32 = + 21 [ranks] + 11 [Dex]
Forgery + 3 = + 3 [Int]
Gather Information + 13 = + 10 [ranks] + 1 [Cha] + 2 [racial]
Heal – 1 = - 1 [Wis]
Hide + 30 = + 17 [ranks] + 11 [Dex] + 2 [magic]
Intimidate + 3 = + 1 [Cha] + 2 [synergy]
Jump + 1 = + 1 [Str]
Listen - 1 = - 1 [Wis]
Move Silently + 30 = + 17 [ranks] + 11 [Dex] + 2 [magic]
Ride + 13 = + 2 [ranks] + 11 [Dex]
Search +20 = + 17 [ranks] + 3 [Int]
Spot + 9 = - 1 [Wis] + 9 [Magic]
Sense Motive + 13 = + 10 [ranks] - 1 [Wis] + 2 [racial] + 2 [synergy]
Speak Language = 14 Languages Learned
Survival - 1 = - 1 [Wis]
Swim + 1 = + 1 [Str]
Use Magic Device + 13 = + 10 [ranks] + 2 [CC ranks] + 1 [Cha]
Use Rope + 11 = + 11 [Dex][/sblock]


[sblock=Level Advancement][/sblock]

[sblock=Changeling]-2 STR, +2 DEX, -2 CON, +2 INT, -2 WIS, +2 CHA
Medium: As Medium creatures, Changelings have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Subtype: Humanoid (shapechanger)
Changling base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision 60ft
+2 racial bonus on bluff, gather information, and sense motive checks.
+2 racial bonus on will saves against mind influencing effects.
-2 racial penalty on will saves against the insanity spell (or any similar spell or effect).
Cold iron susceptibility: a changeling takes an additional 1 point of damage from a cold iron weapon. In addition, they take a -1 penalty on attack and damage rolls with cold iron weapons.
Immunity to sleep
Minor Change Shape (su): a changeling can alter their features to gain a +10 racial bonus on disguise checks. This works exactly like a disguise self spell, except the changeling cannot change clothing or equipment. It is a transmutation effect.
Natural Linguist (ex): speak language is always a class skill for changelings.
Automatic Language: Common and one other Bonus Languages: Any.
Favored Class: Bard or Rogue[/sblock]

Light load: 33 lb. or less
Medium load: 34-66 lb.
Heavy load: 67-100 lb.
Lift over head: 100 lb.
Lift off ground: 200 lb.
Push or drag: 500 lb.

[sblock=Equipment]
Starting gold: 1,000,000 gp.

Weapon 12 gp 8 lb.
Armor 50 gp 30 lb.

Bedroll 1 sp 5 lb.
Blanket, winter 5 sp 3 lb.

Rations, trail (7) 35 sp 7 lb.
Waterskin 1 gp 4 lb.
Flint and steel 1 gp


Potion of Remove Fear 50 gp.
Spell component pouch 5 gp 2 lb.

Scroll of Close Wounds (Sc) (regional bonus)
Scroll of Dark Way (Sc) (regional bonus)
_____
Total: 158 gp 1 sp / 70 lb (heavy encumbrance for str 10)


On person: 41 gp 7 sp 20 cp
[/sblock]

[sblock=Background]…[/sblock]




Amulet of Health +6 NA +5 86.000gp
Rogue's Vest of Resistance +5 43.000gp
Gloves of Dexterity +6 36.000gp
Manual of Quickness of Action +4 111.000gp
Manual of Bodily Health +4 111.000gp
Death Strike Bracers of Armor +8 69.000gp
Ring of Protection +5 50.000gp
Ring of Sustenance 2.500gp
Greater Truedeath Crystal x2 20.000gp
Greater Demolition Crystal x2 12.000gp
Greater Fiendslayer Crystal x2 10.000gp
Crystal Mask of Mindarmor Third Eye Aware 20.000gp
Silkslick Belt of Healing 2.750gp
Wand of lesser Vigor x 5 3.750gp
+5 Blurstrike - Deadly Precision - Wounding Sickle x2 400.000gp

Left Over 23.000gp
[/sblock]

 

[Shayuri]

He's a tough one! Robust.

I am concerned about his Will save. +9 is very low at these levels. For point of comparison, if my sorceror cast Dominate Monster on him, the DC would be 31. You'd need a natural 20 to resist. Of course, I can put a Mind Blank on him, or you could get a 3rd Eye of Concealment...

Of more impact, potentially, is his damage output. 1d6+6 base damage is also low. In 3.5, you can't depend on your sneak attack damage. Especially in this group, where you don't have another melee type to reliably flank with (I do have summoning, but it's not always useful). Plus, it's very easy at high levels to be immune to crits, and thus to sneak attacks. My suggestion to this is rather than to rely on an Amulet of Fists or Natural Attacks or whatever, to buy a weapon pair. Then give them both Wounding. Some things will be immune to Wounding too, of course, but anything that isn't will quickly be whittled down from all those Con points drained. The nice thing about Con damage is that it becomes MORE powerful the more hit dice your target has, as opposed to normal damage which becomes less powerful on higher hit dice foes. And with your high rate of attacks, you could land 3 or 4 hits per turn...that's skimming off 2 hit point per hitdice per turn, plus reducing Fort saves and so on...making them easy prey for spells.

Finally, I take it from your stats that you're not building to be the 'face' character...though your Disguise is exceptional (as expected from a changeling ). You have good trappy skills, and excellent stealth...though your scouting potential is limited by your lack of Spot and Listen. You might check for items that can boost that, since those are (arguably) two of the most important skills in the game.

Good stuff! Look forward to seeing the complete version!

 

[Xaositek]

Hey, I know this game is filled up, but I just wanted to ask if you're taking any alternates, since the concept looks very cool. If not, best of luck, I'll likely be reading your IC thread for fun anyways

 

[ethandrew]

I am concerned about his Will save. +9 is very low at these levels. For point of comparison, if my sorceror cast Dominate Monster on him, the DC would be 31. You'd need a natural 20 to resist. Of course, I can put a Mind Blank on him, or you could get a 3rd Eye of Concealment...

Of more impact, potentially, is his damage output. 1d6+6 base damage is also low. In 3.5, you can't depend on your sneak attack damage. Especially in this group, where you don't have another melee type to reliably flank with (I do have summoning, but it's not always useful). Plus, it's very easy at high levels to be immune to crits, and thus to sneak attacks. My suggestion to this is rather than to rely on an Amulet of Fists or Natural Attacks or whatever, to buy a weapon pair. Then give them both Wounding. Some things will be immune to Wounding too, of course, but anything that isn't will quickly be whittled down from all those Con points drained. The nice thing about Con damage is that it becomes MORE powerful the more hit dice your target has, as opposed to normal damage which becomes less powerful on higher hit dice foes. And with your high rate of attacks, you could land 3 or 4 hits per turn...that's skimming off 2 hit point per hitdice per turn, plus reducing Fort saves and so on...making them easy prey for spells.

These were my two big concerns. I looked briefly, but is there a feat that will allow me to use anything (other than Force of Personality/Charisma) other than Wisdom for Will Saves? It's a huuuge potential for headache having a Will Save that low.

As for damage, one of the main reasons why this rogue doesn't have weapons now is the Morphic Reach, that plus Vexing Flanker/Adaptable Flanker, would give potentially sneak opportunities to a multitude of opponents at one time. Downside, like you said, is the immunities to sneak. I know there are some weapon crystals in the MiC that allow for sneaks against constructions/undead, but I'm not sure if anything else, and should I use weapons, I lose the reach (as far as I'm aware), so it's a give/take thing, do I sacrifice reach for better damage, or do I sacrifice better damage for more reach and ergo more opportunities. But a dual kukri or sickle wielding rogue could also take the Disembowling Strike feat (Complete Scoundrel), which could do an additional 1d4 Con, but that only works once against a single target. However, couple that with the Wounding weapons, you're looking at a potential 3d2+1d4 Con in a given round? Brutal.

 

[Shayuri]

Dude. You'd be out-damaging my sorceror with that kind of Con damage. You'd be taking down targets within 3 rounds, or less. That's crazed.

There are several items that allow sneak attack damage to be done to undead and constructs, and a precious few that allow it to be done to -anything- immune to crits. That last is by far the best, and I think it's either bracers or gauntlets in the MIC...I'll have to check tonight at home. It's a charge/per day item, but far better than nothing.

Frankly, I don't think reach is all that important. It's NICE, don't get me wrong, but not really important.

Plus, with weapons you could get Metalline or something, to counter DR. Non-monk unarmed and/or natural attacks have a gigantic flaw in that they can't counter silver, cold iron, or adamantine DR. And God help you when fighting an unflankable DR 5/- barbarian with high Spot.

GM willing, I might take Leadership. A level 17 cohort won't be so far behind tht he can't contribute, and I can upgrade to Epic Leadership later on to keep him up to date. Then you could have a melee buddy. Alternatively, Leonal Guardinials (via SMIX) or even my character (via Shapechange) could join the fray directly.

 

[ethandrew]

I imagine you'll get the nix on Leadership, since the "portal" or spell that allows us this access is only open to "convenient number of pc's." I'll pull out my MiC when I get home tonight too, see if there isn't something that allows that sneak versus anything.

As far as I'm aware, HolyMan's Cleric is melee based. I forget what else is being played, however. And if it truly is only Cleric or Rogue for the BBEG's to attack, then I might want to look into getting that AC higher, if possible.

I think I will go the route of Wounding Weapons. What would you think of Kukris or Sickles where one is +5 Wounding Speed, that'd give the same +36/+36/+36/+31/+31/+26/+26/+21. A little excessive, I know, but if I'm doing -1 Con per hit, plus an additional 1d4 Con each opponent, say I hit 5 times, that's anywhere between 6-9 Con damage in one round, that's nothing to sneeze at. Plus with weapons come weapon crystals.

 

[Shayuri]

Good point about the cleric!

I think Haste is overpriced myself, since it doesn't stack with Haste effects. Boots of Speed, or the superb Epic version of the same, are easy to come by at this level, and have superior effects...not just extra attacks, but bonuses to Reflex and AC as well!

Myth hasn't outlawed Leadership...he's just stipulated that the cohort and followers have to be 'collected' after we've arrived in the past, for reasons that you mentioned.

 

[Myth and Legend]

Yes, an Epic lvl character is assumed to have been alongside his cohort for quite a while, and since you will be sort of merging with your past selves (so no second version of your PCs), you can still command your cohorts, who will be appropriately weaker however.

If you are going the save-or-die or save-or-suck route:

Really, the best thing for a dedicated SoD specialist is a cohort. Get a Hexblade4/PallyofrTyranny3/Binder1 or something, with Dreadful Wrath, Imperious Command, and Improved Binding. On the charge, he'll impose a -6 penalty to all saves from Cowering due to Dreadful Wrath + Imperious Command, another -2 from Aura of Dispair, another -2 from Foculor's Aura of Sadness, another -2 from Hexblade's Dark Companion ACF (PHBII), and if it fails the save vs his swift action Hex, another -2. Thats a -14 on saves. Its like your cohort just buffed your Int by 28 points WRT your save DCs. If that doesn't get the job done, you're Doing it Wrong(TM).

 

[Shayuri]

I'm trying to retain a fair breadth of combat options. I'm not a total specialist in SoD...though I have some mixed in. Mostly I'm a damage engine.

Improved Metamagic can do ugly, ugly things with Twin Spell, Maximize Spell, and Quicken Spell.

To the tune of 3 ranged touches in 1 round, for 60 points of force damage each, no save, no SR. Cost? Two 9th level slots.

Beats the pants off Meteor Swarm.

I do have some status effects in there, often mixed in with damage. Lucent Lance can Blind for a turn, for example, while doing 15d6 damage. Radiant Assault dazes for 1d6 turns, doing the same damage over an area. Both of those are Light spells, and can't be resisted with energy defenses.

Good stuff.

 

[ethandrew]

Shay, your Cohort better be a marshall!

I've also updated some stuff on the rogue, equipment that'll (hopefully) not make it so susceptible to its mind blowing up.

[sblock=Roguish Character]Roguish Character

Roguish Character

Chaotic Neutral Male Changeling Rogue 7 | Fighter 2 | Warshaper 4 | Nightsong Enforcer 7

Patron Deity: TBD
Starting Region: TBD

EXP: 0

Strength 12 (+1) [10 base] - [2 racial] + [4 class]
Dexterity 32 (+12) [17 base] + [2 racial] + [5 LA] + [6 enhancement] + 4 [insight]
Constitution 26 (+8) [14 base] - [2 racial] + [4 class] + [6 enhancement] + 4 [insight]
Intelligence 16 (+3) [12 base] + [2 racial]
Wisdom 8 (-1) [10 base] - [2 racial]
Charisma 13 (+1) [11 base] + [2 racial]


Size: Medium
Age: ??
Height: ?’?”
Weight: ?? lb
Eyes: ??
Hair: ??
Skin: ??

[sblock=Appearance]...[/sblock]


Total Hit Points: 310

Speed: 30 feet

Armor Class: 39 = 10 + 8 [Armor] + 5 [Natural Armor] + 5 [ring] + 11 [dexterity]
Touch AC: 31
Flat-footed: 39

Initiative modifier: + 11 = + 11 [dexterity]
Fortitude save: + 24 = 11 [base] + 8 [constitution] + 5 [magic]
Reflex save: + 29 = 11 [base] + 11 [dexterity] + 5 [magic] + 2 [magic]
Will save: + 13 = 5 [base] - 1 [wisdom] + 5 [magic] + 4 [magic]
Attack (Natural): + 33 = 17 [base] + 11 [dexterity] + 5 [Amulet of Natural Fists]
Attack (missile): + 28 = 17 [base] + 11 [dexterity]
Grapple check: + 18 = 17 [base] + 1 [strength]

[sblock=Special]Sneak Attack: 9d6 (7d6 [class] + 2d6 [magic])
Trapfinding
Evasion
Trapsense: +2
Uncanny Dodge
Morphic Immunities: Immune to Stunning and Critical Hits
Morphic Weapons: As a move action, can grow natural weapons, dealing damage appropriate to form’s size
Morphic Body: +4 to Strength and +4 to Constitution
Morphic Healing: Grants Fast Healing 2. As a full-round action, success on a Concentration Check (DC equal to total damage sustained), it heals 10 damage.
Teamwork: Gains a +20 circumstance bonus on listen and spot checks to hear and see allies.
Agility Training: Reduces ACP on light armor by 2 (to a minimum of 0).
Skill Teamwork: +4 competence bonus to all allies within 30’ on Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, and Spot checks.
Flanking Teamwork: When Nightsong Enforcer flanks an opponent, the enforcer and all other allies who threaten the opponent get an additional +1 circumstance bonus on their attack rolls (in addition to normal flanking bonus).
Opportunist: Once per round, can make an attack of opportunity against an opponent who has just been injured in melee by another character.[/sblock]

Weapon proficiency: all simple weapons, all types of armor (light, medium, and heavy), shields (except tower shields).

Languages: Common, Elven, Abyssal, Celestial, Infernal, Goblin, Undercommon, Draconic, Auran, Aquan, Ignan, Terran, Dwarven, Sylvan

+5 Blurstrike Deadly Precision Wounding Sickle [1d4 + 6 + 1 Con crit x2]

Full Attack: +32/+32/+27/+27/+22/+22/+17 1d4 + 6 + 1 Con damage x2
Full Attack if Flanking: +37/+37/+32/+32/+27/+27/+22 1d4 + 6 + 1 Con Damage + 9d6

[sblock=Feats]1st: Two Weapon Fighting (PHB)
3rd: Weapon Finesse (PHB)
6th: Combat Reflexes (PHB)
8th: Improved Two Weapon Fighting (Fighter) (PHB)
9th: Weapon Focus (Sickle) (Fighter) (PHB)
9th: Vexing Flanker (PHB 2)
12th: Adaptable Flanker (PHB 2)
15th: Greater Two Weapon Fighting (PHB)
18th: Disembowling Strike (CS)[/sblock]

[sblock=Skills]Appraise + 3 = + 3 [Int]
Balance + 11 = + 11 [Dex]
Bluff + 13 = + 10 [ranks] + 1 [Cha] + 2 [racial]
Climb + 1 = + 1 [Str]
Concentration + 8 = + 8 [Con]
Craft +3= + 3 [Int]
Diplomacy + 5 = + 1 [Cha] + 4 [synergy]
Disable Device + 20 = + 17 [ranks] + 3 [Int]
Disguise + 34 = + 21 [ranks] + 1 [Cha] + 2 [synergy] + 10 [racial]
Escape Artist + 32 = + 21 [ranks] + 11 [Dex]
Forgery + 3 = + 3 [Int]
Gather Information + 13 = + 10 [ranks] + 1 [Cha] + 2 [racial]
Heal – 1 = - 1 [Wis]
Hide + 30 = + 17 [ranks] + 11 [Dex] + 2 [magic]
Intimidate + 3 = + 1 [Cha] + 2 [synergy]
Jump + 1 = + 1 [Str]
Listen - 1 = - 1 [Wis]
Move Silently + 30 = + 17 [ranks] + 11 [Dex] + 2 [magic]
Ride + 13 = + 2 [ranks] + 11 [Dex]
Search +20 = + 17 [ranks] + 3 [Int]
Spot + 9 = - 1 [Wis] + 9 [Magic]
Sense Motive + 13 = + 10 [ranks] - 1 [Wis] + 2 [racial] + 2 [synergy]
Speak Language = 14 Languages Learned
Survival - 1 = - 1 [Wis]
Swim + 1 = + 1 [Str]
Use Magic Device + 13 = + 10 [ranks] + 2 [CC ranks] + 1 [Cha]
Use Rope + 11 = + 11 [Dex][/sblock]


[sblock=Level Advancement][/sblock]

[sblock=Changeling]-2 STR, +2 DEX, -2 CON, +2 INT, -2 WIS, +2 CHA
Medium: As Medium creatures, Changelings have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Subtype: Humanoid (shapechanger)
Changling base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision 60ft
+2 racial bonus on bluff, gather information, and sense motive checks.
+2 racial bonus on will saves against mind influencing effects.
-2 racial penalty on will saves against the insanity spell (or any similar spell or effect).
Cold iron susceptibility: a changeling takes an additional 1 point of damage from a cold iron weapon. In addition, they take a -1 penalty on attack and damage rolls with cold iron weapons.
Immunity to sleep
Minor Change Shape (su): a changeling can alter their features to gain a +10 racial bonus on disguise checks. This works exactly like a disguise self spell, except the changeling cannot change clothing or equipment. It is a transmutation effect.
Natural Linguist (ex): speak language is always a class skill for changelings.
Automatic Language: Common and one other Bonus Languages: Any.
Favored Class: Bard or Rogue[/sblock]

Light load: 33 lb. or less
Medium load: 34-66 lb.
Heavy load: 67-100 lb.
Lift over head: 100 lb.
Lift off ground: 200 lb.
Push or drag: 500 lb.

[sblock=Equipment]
Starting gold: 1,000,000 gp.

Amulet of Health +6 NA +5 86.000gp
Rogue's Vest of Resistance +5 43.000gp
Gloves of Dexterity +6 36.000gp
Manual of Quickness of Action +4 111.000gp
Manual of Bodily Health +4 111.000gp
Death Strike Bracers of Armor +8 69.000gp
Ring of Protection +5 50.000gp
Ring of Sustenance 2.500gp
Greater Truedeath Crystal x2 20.000gp
Greater Demolition Crystal x2 12.000gp
Greater Fiendslayer Crystal x2 10.000gp
Crystal Mask of Mindarmor Third Eye Aware 20.000gp
Silkslick Belt of Healing 2.750gp
Wand of lesser Vigor x 5 3.750gp
+5 Blurstrike - Deadly Precision - Wounding Sickle x2 400.000gp
_____
Total: 23.000 gp 0 sp / ?? lb


On person: 23.000 gp 0 sp 0 cp
[/sblock]

[sblock=Background]…[/sblock] [/sblock]