Deities and Demigods ~ Utility Concerns

[Rashak Mani]

Very Low... but the pictures are nice

 

[Psion]

I am not one to think deities don't need stats. But I find a book that is 75% deity stats nearly useless. Further, while MotP presented a cosmology many won't use, it presented alernate cosmologies and planes that you could drop into other cosmologies.

DDG does not have the same sort of flexibility. You hear in various campaigns and mythologies how deities inter-relate; some sort of model could have been built around it. Instead we are left with one model, the combat model. Very weak.

Sure, you could rob some deity stats and rub off the serial numbers, but are you really going to use them?

You would think that WotC would have learned from the smashing success of the 2e F&A, which focussed on the priesthoods which are far more likely to come into play.

DDG has nice high production values and a some neat ideas, but far to few for the size and price.

 

[Information]

Well, I was certainly impressed by the attention given to deity stats and abilities, but I must agree with Psion in that more information to priesthoods would have been nice.

I would have liked to see more generic information added that could be interwoven within any campaign.

Upper_Krust's suggestion that the deity descriptions could have been reduced by excising redundant information is a good one. If you know a deity's domains, why print all their spell-like abilities? Redundant. How much information could have been included otherwise if they actually realized the DM could flip the pages of his PHB to the section on domains (or the back of D&Dg!) and look for himself?

I think the designers were overly generous with deity illustrations. The Monster Manual suffered from lack of art, IMHO, (and some of the existing art was poor). No illustrations for barbazus but Pan gets one?

 

[Information]

One problem I've encountered in actually using the book is the rigidity with which the deities are defined.

It is next to impossible to tweak a 3rd Edition deity without far reaching ramifications. Try changing a deity's rank from greater to intermediate, or whatever, and you'll find yourself bogged down in reconfiguring DR and the godawful amount of powers and skills it actually influences.

For example, racial deities are not very prominent in my campaign, and I had originally determined to reduce the "demihuman" (sorry) deities to intermediate deity status. Well, I gave that up after a couple of hours. Better to just leave them be rather than re-work them entirely.

The D&Dg system's complexity discourages changing the officially-endowed stats. I wanted a neutral good elf deity. I thought about simply changing Corellan to NG, but that would resonate throughout his entire stat block and write-up. So, I simply changed Frey's name to Heslyn-Frey (NG) and use him instead.

Unlike 1st Ed., the abilities and powers are so interlocked and interdependent, it is almost impossible to alter these beings. I haven't even bothered looking at their feats, but I would imagine simply removing 5 DR from Corellan would throw everything completely out of wack.

I improvised, however, so rather than tweak existing deities, I just use other deity write-ups that more closely resemble what I have in mind.

I wanted badly to make Kurtulmak a Lesser or (preferably) a Demigod. But the god of kobolds is simply not worth spending hours re-working. Better to simply leave him be and remain more "divinely endowed" than Tiamat.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Rashak!

The Book is good for choosing dieties and things like that... ruleswise its as close to useless as I have seen... at least where 90% of groups are concerned...

How many of you plan to fight gods or avatars ? How many intend to make a battle of Athena vs Ares ? Stats are useless...

We plan on using the stats. But I concur we are in the minority.

But the Art is great... use it as a reference to gods and thats it.

The art is fantastic, for the most. But even the amount of information on the gods themselves was scarce - very few relationships mentioned, nothing for campaigns to pick up on! How about a page on pantheon relationships, both internal and external!?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi information mate!

Well, I was certainly impressed by the attention given to deity stats and abilities, but I must agree with Psion in that more information to priesthoods would have been nice.

If I were doing such a book* I would attempt to make the material 50/50 between deities and priesthoods where possible.

*

I would have liked to see more generic information added that could be interwoven within any campaign.

I agree this was one of a number of disappointing aspects.

Upper_Krust's suggestion that the deity descriptions could have been reduced by excising redundant information is a good one. If you know a deity's domains, why print all their spell-like abilities? Redundant.

Its seemingly so obvious that I am bewildered why they did it like that!?

Another problem I can't understand is why didn't they set the deities up in 2 page format (each with their own double page spread) - or cut out the wasted space and get everything within 3 columns. It would have been so less confusing.

How much information could have been included otherwise if they actually realized the DM could flip the pages of his PHB to the section on domains (or the back of D&Dg!) and look for himself?

With those 30+ pages they could have included an entire extra Pantheon although a few more Prestige Classes; Temples; Discussion of 'Chosen of' Templates would have been nice too.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again mate!

One problem I've encountered in actually using the book is the rigidity with which the deities are defined.

It is next to impossible to tweak a 3rd Edition deity without far reaching ramifications. Try changing a deity's rank from greater to intermediate, or whatever, and you'll find yourself bogged down in reconfiguring DR and the godawful amount of powers and skills it actually influences.

For example, racial deities are not very prominent in my campaign, and I had originally determined to reduce the "demihuman" (sorry) deities to intermediate deity status. Well, I gave that up after a couple of hours. Better to just leave them be rather than re-work them entirely.

The D&Dg system's complexity discourages changing the officially-endowed stats. I wanted a neutral good elf deity. I thought about simply changing Corellan to NG, but that would resonate throughout his entire stat block and write-up. So, I simply changed Frey's name to Heslyn-Frey (NG) and use him instead.

Unlike 1st Ed., the abilities and powers are so interlocked and interdependent, it is almost impossible to alter these beings. I haven't even bothered looking at their feats, but I would imagine simply removing 5 DR from Corellan would throw everything completely out of wack.

I agree Divine Rank totally throws a spanner in the works - though I think I have a way around it (testing a few ideas at the moment)!

Also I think Divinity is better determined via a Template.

I also think NPC class 'blocks' will help.

So hopefully all that, in addition to the removal of extreneous material will make such things much simpler!?

 

[Claude Raines]

Re: problems with the rules

I myself have found some admittedly nit-picky details that do not add up.
2) Increased Energy Resistance - adds additionial resistance to acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic energy. Being divine gives IMMUNITY to three of those.

These are just things that I have found just glancing through the book. I have not done a detailed analysis yet. I am almost afraid to.

I can't address all your points since I don't have D&Dg with me. As well, some are legitimate errors or issues with the book (such as diety stats). Still I can say something about this one.

The divine immunity does not work against dieties of equal or greater rank, but the energy resistance does. Thus this ability does function in a vital role.

 

[Emiricol]

Re: problems with the rules

I myself have found some admittedly nit-picky details that do not add up.

<snip>
2) Increased Energy Resistance - adds additionial resistance to acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic energy. Being divine gives IMMUNITY to three of those.

<snip>
7) Godly Attributes - if I was creating a deity from scratch, how can I figure out what STR, DEX, etc to give him. Seems the official ruling has been left out. Looking at the web enhancement it gives a 0 rank deity anywhere between 22-40!

<snip>
These are just things that I have found just glancing through the book. I have not done a detailed analysis yet. I am almost afraid to.

2) The increased energy resistance is ONLY applied to fire
7) Deities start with 32 points, gain +1 per Divine Rank, and +1 per 4 Class Levels. Deities begin with 40 class levels and the equivalent of 20 Outsider Levels (treat as Expert), -1 level per HD of the base creature.

My complaint? None of that is spelled out. Some friends of mine just did the math and figured it out.

Love the book, hate the fact that it doesn't really tell you how to stat your gods.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Hi Upper Krust !

I agree completely that info reinforcing better the priesthood with the Gods should have been included... who cares about Stats when most cant even dare touch these divinities.

A little more background... a little more Clergy info... a little more appetizers and extra powers would have been more interesting. Even as a reference books its not so useful...

But the art is great...