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Deities & Demigods: American Indian Mythos (or, Who the Heck is Qagwaaz?)

Fifth Element

Fifth Element

Legend
gizmo33 said:
I've had a similar experience trying to find anything about Apshai (from the Egyptian Mythos) that resembles what's in the DDG.
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Finding references to Apshai is indeed difficult. Here's one that refers to him as a "devourer of the dead". Other than that, it's pretty slim pickings.

I searched a hieroglyphic dictionary and found a reference to Abit or Abait, the mantis who guides the dead to the halls of Osiris. That could be related to Apshai, possibly. Also, interestingly "pesh" means to bite or to gnaw, as an insect. So A-pesh-ai could certainly be related to chewing or eating, as in the "devourer of the dead" reference above.

Edit: There's also a spell in the Book of the Dead used for warding off the evil Apshai beetle, apparently.

Edit: Hmm...Ammit is the Devourer of the Dead, isn't she? Apshai could be a Jewish transliteration in the above reference?
 
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R

Raven Crowking

First Post
Okay, the Handbook of American Indians (F.W. Hodge, 1965) is available for download from the University of California website, and it is OCRed, so I was able to electronically search for Qagwaaz. No luck. So I went manually through the "K" and "Q" sections (it has encyclopedia-style listings). Also no luck.

The first volume is over 900 pages, and the second over 1200, so there is some chance that Qagwaaz either was not picked up by the OCR or that I missed some reference. I also searched for "qag" just to be on the safe side. Again, no luck.

I am now also guessing "invented from whole cloth", possibly to fit "Needed a plains indian hero".

When/If Jim Ward answers, I'll pass on what he says.

EDIT: He said, "It was quite a long time since I did that research, but most of the American Indian material came from the FOLKLORE, MYTHOLOGY, AND LEGEND book. Hope that helps."



RC
 
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Mean Eyed Cat

Mean Eyed Cat

Explorer
RC, does he mean this book:

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Wagnalls-Standard-Dictionary-Folklore-Mythology/dp/0062505114/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305219404&sr=1-1]Amazon.com: Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology, and Legend (9780062505118): Maria Leach, Jerome Fried: Books[/ame]
 


R

Raven Crowking

First Post
Not sure; is that the one listed in the DDG? If so, probably.

EDIT: Also, this is not a book on my shelf.....although it probably will be before the summer is out!


RC
 
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G

gizmo33

First Post
Fifth Element said:
Finding references to Apshai is indeed difficult. Here's one that refers to him as a "devourer of the dead". Other than that, it's pretty slim pickings.
Click to expand...

Thanks. There's a mention made in a footnote of one of the E Wallis Budges books that says the same thing, with some writing that indicates that he's an insect of some kind. No mention made of anything about preying mantis or time, which IIRC is what the D&DG entry says. In fact, I can't find anything to indicate that the Ancient Egyptians even knew what a preying mantis was (though I wouldn't be surpised, and I'm not an expert or anything). (edit: just noted your statement about Abit, guess they did have mantis' in Egypt) The only preying mantis deity that I know of in any mythos is Cagn/Kagn from San mythology.

Fifth Element said:
I searched a hieroglyphic dictionary and found a reference to Abit or Abait, the mantis who guides the dead to the halls of Osiris. That could be related to Apshai, possibly. Also, interestingly "pesh" means to bite or to gnaw, as an insect. So A-pesh-ai could certainly be related to chewing or eating, as in the "devourer of the dead" reference above.
Click to expand...

Again, I'm not an expert, but with Egyptian hieroglypics, I wouldn't be surprised if Apshai's name is simply the result of the combination of hieroglyphs for Ap and Shai. I know Shai is a deity (goddess I think), and it seems common for the Egyptians to use gods names as parts of titles/names for other gods, so Ap-Shai might mean something like "the goddess Shai sends me to chew off your toes". I've looked at Shai during my searches and hadn't found anything relevant there.

I'm in agreement with a sentiment on this thread that the authors of the DDG would have no need to make anything up given the scads of real world info at their disposal. But this is pretty mysterious, I think an answer from Ward/Kuntz about the Amerindian example might clarify the situation about how committed they were to sticking to real mythology. Even if it's not "real", I like the idea of Apshai that they came up with. Maybe they just thought up the idea and thought it was cool enough to publish. (And cool enough for someone to borrow for an old Atari game idea too.)
 



Fifth Element

Fifth Element

Legend
I was able to have a quick perusal of that volume. Qagwaaz does not have an entry in it (nor does Snake-Man or Stoneribs), though that's doesn't mean they're not mentioned in other entries. Unfortunately it's a reference-only book at that library, and I'm not spending the hours in the library that would be required to search thoroughly.

Another library can get it for me on inter-library loan, so I'll probably go that route.
 


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