Deities & Demigods continued

[Upper_Krust]

Hello Nightfall mate!

Okay cool then Krusty mate. Incidently I'm working on a new little side project that if you have the time for, I'll send to you when I get it all worked out (at an initial rough draft anyway).

Look forward to it!

I think you'll like this one. I can honestly say, YOU in an indirect way, were responsible for this.

Doubly intrigued then!

 

[Lakkett]

I noticed a lot of questions as to where gods get their high ability scores. After pouring through the salient divine abilities overnight, I came across a possible answer: Alter Reality.

With Alter Reality, a diety can duplicate any spell of 9th or lower level as a standard action with no material or XP cost. Already here, we see that a diety with Alter Reality can easily give himself/herself/itself a +5 inherent bonus from wishes to all of its stats in a matter of moments.

Also, Alter Reality conveys the ability to make magical or supernatural effects permanent (with some rest time measured in tens of minutes afterword). All a diety has to do is use Alter Reality to cast a maximized and empowered bull’s strength/cat’s grace/eagle’s splender/etc. on itself, take a little rest time for using all those metamagic feats, and then make the effects permanent on itself for a +7 enhancement bonus to all of its stats.

So far we have a plus +12 bonus to all stats that the diety can confer upon himself, his friends, family, toad familiar, etc. at any time he/she wants. I’m sure there’s also the possibility of making luck bonuses, insight bonuses, competence bonuses and all the rest permanent as well. And some DM’s might rule that lesser powers and up can exceed the +5 inherent bonuses for multiple wish castings (maybe +6 for lesser deities, +7 for intermediate, +8 for greater, etc.).

What do you think?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi there!

I noticed a lot of questions as to where gods get their high ability scores. After pouring through the salient divine abilities overnight, I came across a possible answer: Alter Reality.

Firstly can I just say I am jealous of anyone with this book!

With Alter Reality, a diety can duplicate any spell of 9th or lower level as a standard action with no material or XP cost. Already here, we see that a diety with Alter Reality can easily give himself/herself/itself a +5 inherent bonus from wishes to all of its stats in a matter of moments.

Also, Alter Reality conveys the ability to make magical or supernatural effects permanent (with some rest time measured in tens of minutes afterword). All a diety has to do is use Alter Reality to cast a maximized and empowered bull’s strength/cat’s grace/eagle’s splender/etc. on itself, take a little rest time for using all those metamagic feats, and then make the effects permanent on itself for a +7 enhancement bonus to all of its stats.

So far we have a plus +12 bonus to all stats that the diety can confer upon himself, his friends, family, toad familiar, etc. at any time he/she wants. I’m sure there’s also the possibility of making luck bonuses, insight bonuses, competence bonuses and all the rest permanent as well. And some DM’s might rule that lesser powers and up can exceed the +5 inherent bonuses for multiple wish castings (maybe +6 for lesser deities, +7 for intermediate, +8 for greater, etc.).

What do you think?

#1: Deities don't have Alter Reality as standard - so that doesn't explain all deities.

#2: Deities seem to have a minimum ability score of 24 - therefore it cannot be determined by merely applying a bonus.

#3: I think we have to assume that deities cannot further gain Inherant Bonuses. So they couldn't make a Cats Grace (etc.) permanent. Otherwise all deities would do this as standard!

#4 Until we get the Epic Rules I doubt we will see spells that allow Permanent Inherant Bonuses above +5. Or indeed Items that allow more than a +6 bonus.

 

[Lakkett]

Howdy Upper Krust,

#3: I think we have to assume that deities cannot further gain Inherant Bonuses. So they couldn't make a Cats Grace (etc.) permanent. Otherwise all deities would do this as standard!

Ah, but you forget, Cat's Grace is an enhancement bonus, not an inherent bonus. Hence, they stack.

#1: Deities don't have Alter Reality as standard - so that doesn't explain all deities.

#2: Deities seem to have a minimum ability score of 24 - therefore it cannot be determined by merely applying a bonus.

True, but then again, deities can apply these bonuses to others as well as themselves. There's nothing to stop a deity from sponsoring a similarly aligned mortal into divine ascension while simultaneously granting these bonuses. The bonuses would be useful in evening up the playing field against deities of opposing alignment.

#4 Until we get the Epic Rules I doubt we will see spells that allow Permanent Inherant Bonuses above +5. Or indeed Items that allow more than a +6 bonus.

Yeah, I’d best just cease speculation and wait for the actual rules to come out.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Upper Krust,

Hi Lakkett!

Ah, but you forget, Cat's Grace is an enhancement bonus, not an inherent bonus. Hence, they stack.

Such an enhancement bonus wouldn't work in an Anti-Magic Field.

True, but then again, deities can apply these bonuses to others as well as themselves. There's nothing to stop a deity from sponsoring a similarly aligned mortal into divine ascension while simultaneously granting these bonuses. The bonuses would be useful in evening up the playing field against deities of opposing alignment.

I think thats probably one reason why spells like Cats Grace/Bulls Strength are not listed under Permanency.

Yeah, I’d best just cease speculation and wait for the actual rules to come out.

Don't be silly, speculate away!

 

[Dahak]

#2: Deities seem to have a minimum ability score of 24 - therefore it cannot be determined by merely applying a bonus.

I'm not sure if this had been mentioned in the thread yet, and I doubt it explains native-born deities (i.e. those with Outsider "levels"), but the ascended quasi-deity/deity presented in the Web Enhancement can be quantified:

At Divine Rank 0, he has a base of 24 in each ability plus 21 points assigned. He gains one aditional ability point per Divine Rank gained.

Again, I don't know how the "real" deities get their high stats, nor do I know why the ascended deity in the Web Enhancement didn't gain the additional ability increases associated with level increases.

 

[Nightfall]

Don't worry Krusty, I REALLY think you'll like this one.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Dahak mate!

I'm not sure if this had been mentioned in the thread yet, and I doubt it explains native-born deities (i.e. those with Outsider "levels"), but the ascended quasi-deity/deity presented in the Web Enhancement can be quantified:

At Divine Rank 0, he has a base of 24 in each ability plus 21 points assigned. He gains one aditional ability point per Divine Rank gained.

We knew that but it was the jump from mortal to deity that was confusing us with regards ability scores:

- What would happen if the mortal had 25 (or better) in a stat before ascending!?

- What if it was a dragon that ascended - seemingly Tiamat and Bahamuts Dexterity score is still 10.

- Can you wish for inherant bonuses after ascension?

- What happens to previous inherant bonuses?

etc.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Nightfall mate!

Don't worry Krusty, I REALLY think you'll like this one.

Tease!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Can someone post Lolths ability scores

Hi all!

Could someone with D&Dg post Lolths ability scores.

Someone previously mentioned:

Clr20/Ftr10/Wiz10 (820hp)

If this is correct though it means Lolth either has no Outsider HD or a Constitution less than the 24 minimum.

Thanks.