Deitys and Apologies

[Greenfield]

In our campaign there was a PC who died, came back on "Borrowed time" (The gates to the land of the dead were closed, long story), died again, was chased by the Celtic Wild Hunt as a way of telling a foreign land that there was an afterlife, got turned into one of the hounds of the hunt (spent a year and a half in that form), got restored to life, and then sent in to deal with an invasion from the Abyss.

After this was all done, that PC (plus a few others directly involved) found themselves possessed of a powerful urge to go out to the edge of the moors at moonrise.

Vandos, the Celtic deity and master of the Wild Hunt was there with his huntsmen and the Sluagh (hounds of the hunt).

He described what had happened as follows:

Ceburn of Dumfries, you have been used and abused to our purpose and pleasure. You are none the worse for it, so no apology is called for. But I do offer you the pleasure of riding one last hunt with us. This being the last night of the hunter's moon, we pursue not your kinsmen, but only the great boar. I invite you and yours to ride with us.

They gifted him with a fine horse (Heavy warhorse with max hit points, an extra step of speed and good quality tack and saddle).

It brought up the very non-egalitarian point that deities don't apologize to mortals, ever, no matter what they do to them.

Do the gods in your games ever deal with mortals in this way? Just drag them in, turn their lives upside down, then figure that "You are none the worse for it" if they manage to survive?

Do they ever owe the mortals anything in return, when it's all over? Do they ever apologize?

 

[Omegaxicor]

Deities in my games are rarely so...evident, they normally stay out of mortal lives and only contact or affect the Material Plane through their agents, but the few occasions where I have played a high level campaign and the players have aided the deity defeat a plot that the deity should thank them for...they don't

Gods see mortals as tools because they created them and they guide them so if the mortals do something it is because the deity wanted them to and if they suffer greatly because they try to save the deity (close to being forgotten and they convert loads of people but suffer a holy war which kills the player that is the Cleric/Paladin/etc) the deity is indebted to them but shows no feelings for sympathy or thankfulness because that is how Fate should play out, they have played their part as was intended

 

[Dozen]

Depends on the deity. You can expect guys like Chaav or Heironeous to be fair and kind. It's in their job description. Then there is Maglubiyet and Ubtao who hardly give a damn about their own followers, let alone everyone else.

One thing to remember about D&D gods is that they're basically normal people with epic levels or concepts came true; either way, they have their own pros and cons regarding their personality, very much like the Greek deities. It adds up, too; about 80% percent of both groups are dicks by virtue of power corruption. There is a reason only Hell has a God Street.

 

[Omegaxicor]

Depends on the deity. You can expect guys like Chaav or Heironeous to be fair and kind. It's in their job description. Then there is Maglubiyet and Ubtao who hardly give a damn about their own followers, let alone everyone else.

One thing to remember about D&D gods is that they're basically normal people with epic levels or concepts came true; either way, they have their own pros and cons regarding their personality, very much like the Greek deities. It adds up, too; about 80% percent of both groups are dicks by virtue of power corruption. There is a reason only Hell has a God Street.

That's open to interpretation, I would say that nothing in the game says the gods have to be "evolved" mortals, I think gods are gods immortal and innate. Heironeous believes in honour he is the personification of what Paladins strive to be, therefore he should act exactly like Paladins, or he is worshipped by those who are honourable because he is honourable but he doesn't care about those beneath him so long as they are honourable...and oppose Hextor.

Like many things in D&D, the Gods are representative of the world in which they exist, each worlds interpretation of Heironeous will be different even if he is still a shining example of Paladinhood (is that a word?).

 

[Samloyal23]

Gods typically assume mortals should be grateful for any chance to serve them or interact with them, no matter how perilous it may be...

 

[Dozen]

That's open to interpretation, I would say that nothing in the game says the gods have to be "evolved" mortals, I think gods are gods immortal and innate. Heironeous believes in honour he is the personification of what Paladins strive to be, therefore he should act exactly like Paladins, or he is worshipped by those who are honourable because he is honourable but he doesn't care about those beneath him so long as they are honourable...and oppose Hextor.

Like many things in D&D, the Gods are representative of the world in which they exist, each worlds interpretation of Heironeous will be different even if he is still a shining example of Paladinhood (is that a word?).

Answering from last to first.

1. Yes, It is

2. If Heironeous is what paladins strive to be, most paladins comically missed the point, and

3. Deities aren't some intanglible ascended beings we cannot possibly comprehend; they are just everyday men, women and "miscellaneous" with powers on steroids. And you can become one of them. Canon. Zagyg and Vecna did it. You can play them out in various ways as a DM, true. But his entry says Lawful Good. As apparently he's yet to fall, I'd guess he meant it when he filled out that char sheet, and no Good person has a 'not caring for those beneath him' policy. Damn right a real paladin doesn't. I'll go also ahead and assume if he managed to stay in the saddle for so long, he pulled the stick out off his ass soon enough, if he had one to begin with. Though this latter can be worked around if you really want a Holier Than Thou sthick, he'd still care for the rest, even for Evil ones, because that's what being Good is about. Your Heironeous in your campaign can only care for those he deemed important, but then go ahead and cross out the word 'Good', replace it with 'Neutral', and make him a cleric.

 

[Dozen]

GodsPoliticians typically assume mortals should be grateful for any chance to serve them or interact with them, no matter how perilous it may be...

Fixed that one for you

Seriously though, Good gods are Good. They risk alignment change if they in your face. Pride of that sort is sin, and they know it.

 

[Greenfield]

On an odd side note: That horse is going to help re-enforce a policy in our game world, one that some DMs have fudged on.

We aren't supposed to have Teleport available in any significant form. No blipping from adventure to adventure. Cover the ground in between.

Well, up until now, when the DM felt like blipping us someplace we ended up having to get new horses and gear. The various methods were always us and only us.

Now he has a horse, a gift from a deity that he won't abandon, won't simply let die. So he'll take it aboard ship, over mountains, wherever. And if whatever instant transport method the DM has cooked up doesn't allow for it, then he'll refuse to go. You don't just cast aside a divine gift, even if it is a gift from the collector of souls.

For the record, Arwyn is the Celtic ruler of the underworld, which is located in Glastonbury at a place called Tor. Vandos is a lesser deity in his service. He leads the Wild Hunt, which roams the land on the nights of the full moon (the "Hunter's Moon") and collects the souls of the fallen.

It's one of the few afterlife transitions that's supposed to be visible to mortals, as legend has it that on certain nights you can hear the horns of the riders and the baying of the Sluagh. Some people, so it is said, get caught up in the madness of the Hunt, either running with the hunters or fleeing before them. Mortals will eventually fall by the wayside as exhaustion takes its toll, and the Sluagh won't actually harm a mortal that they run down. It isn't your body that they're after.

 

[Dozen]

For the record, Arwyn is the Celtic ruler of the underworld, which is located in Glastonbury at a place called Tor. Vandos is a lesser deity in his service. He leads the Wild Hunt, which roams the land on the nights of the full moon (the "Hunter's Moon") and collects the souls of the fallen.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get rules on Celtic gods? Did you Homebrew it?

 

[Tomn]

There was only one time in my games where a player directly interacted with a god(dess). Wee Jas, to be specific. He was sent on an epic quest to recover an artifact (a tome that pretty much gave the person 100% control over any and all conjuration spells, said to be the spellbook of the god of portals). The character in question was a level... 8? commoner, and he was tasked with protecting a level 11 wizard. It was pretty funny for the most part, but there were some rather serious moments when the two would almost die (which happened about 3 times in the 2 sessions that I ran it for). He went through some tough ---- during that short time.

Despite the fact that we never played any farther, I added him to the overall canon of my game world (all my campaigns take place in the same world). During his adventures, Wee Jas eventually gave him a golden pitchfork to use as a weapon, as a bit of a joke. It was amazingly powerful, however. I think I ended up statting it out, and it was able to use the wish spell once a month with no XP cost, along with a number of other things. To thank him for his 17 years of involuntary service in an all-out war between the gods, Wee Jas allowed him to keep the pitchfork.

Eventually, some characters in another campaign actually ran across him after about 10 or 20 in-game years had passed. He was, by that point, a level 21 commoner, and owner of one of the most successful taverns in the world, named "The Golden Pitchfork". He is now married to the wizard he protected all those years. The player who had done that short campaign with me immediately recognized him and freaked out, which was pretty fun. I'm planning on having that character help out a different campaign by providing the requisite wish spell when they fight the Terrasque.

Overall, I had Wee Jas treat him as if he were beneath her, for sure, but she still felt a bit guilty for taking up 17 years of his life. Kinda like how a person might feel if they captured a rat and forced it to run on a wheel in order to power their bedside lamp. An odd example, but one you'll have to put up with. Anyways; most of the gods in my game world will give you some compensation for services rendered, if only for the sake of keeping up appearances with their worshipers. Of course, that doesn't apply to most of the evil gods. Some really nice gods, on the other hand, will actually try to make you feel like you've been fairly compensated, although they still won't ask your permission before screwing your life over.