Deluxe Gaming Products - Lessons from Ptolus

[Mark]

If it came with free beer for a month, I MIGHT pay that.

I'm guessing anyone who says this is going to drink far in excess of $100.00 of beer in a month.

Or if it was delivered by Heidi Klum.

I'm guessing anyone who says this is likely to require Heidi Klum be paid far more than $100.00 to make it happen.

Maybe if Monte came over and DM'd the damn thing himself.

Okay. What kind of beer and what would you like Heidi to wear . . .?

 

[kaomera]

What features would you like to see in a product that would increase the value for you?

Reduce the pagecount and make it softback.

Seriously, the only way I can really see buying Ptolus is in pdf form. It would look great on my bookshelf, but having hefted the thing and tried to flip through it, I don't think I could actually read it, let alone lug it to a game. It's a shame, really, because it's an awesome product; but it would have served me better if it had been released in multiple volumes.

 

[Cergorach]

1. I don't think Ptolus is worth the $120 it costs when comparing it with other products (buy Eberron and Forgotten Realms for 2/3 of the price), the only thing that made me pay this kind of amount for a book is all the extras that preordering it would bring (players guides, adventure, exclusive content). Even then it fell short in features (i expected that the whole book would be in pdf on the cd, why should i pay another $100 for the whole thing on pdf). Same goes for Rappan Arthuk.
2. Make sure that what it does it does extremely well. You want to present it as a single adventuring solution, make sure that it has a complete adventure arc (from 1-20).
3. Make sure that people don't feel that they have to spent another $100 on extras to make it a truly deluxe product.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

1. I don't think Ptolus is worth the $120 it costs when comparing it with other products (buy Eberron and Forgotten Realms for 2/3 of the price),

Don't these books also have 2/3 of the page count?

Really, plenty of people don't want that much detail, and I can respect that. However, those that do can't really complain about the amount of detail they get for their money...

 

[Cergorach]

Don't these books also have 2/3 of the page count?

Ebberon 320 pages $40 (has cd rom)
Forgotten Realms 320 pages $40 (has map)
Ptolus 670 pages $120 (has cd rom, map, and handouts)

Those 30 extra pages and those handouts aren't really worth the extra $40 imho.

While preordering nets you another $20 adventure an five $3 players guides, that makes it more interesting, but not high value. While the gimmick is that it's in one huge book, generally printing costs per page go down with a bigger book.

I'm not saying that it's a bad book, but it is overpriced when you compare it to other RPG books, $85 would have been more competative, but there is no competition in this price range so Monte can pretty much set his price.

Same goes for Rappan Arthuk, the box has absolutely no added value, there are only three booklets in there, no lose maps, no lose handouts (and a certificate of authenticity, but i could have done without that if it would have made the product cheaper, like a $40 hardcover). If you do a boxedset fill her up with maps and handouts.

I really do want that level of detail, but not at a 50% mark up compared to the competition, because there's a lot of other great stuff out there that can be considered a complete campaign solution...

Iron Kingdoms Character Guide: Full Metal Fantasy, Vol. 1 400 pages $40
Iron Kingdoms World Guide: Full Metal Fantasy, Vol. 2 400 pages $40

Dawning Star: Operation Quick Launch 208 pages $30
Dawning Star: Helios Rising 540 pages $45

 

[Infernal Teddy]

I have a single Deluxe product, which is the 25th anniversary edition of Call of Cthulhu. No color, but an exquisite layout and beautiful monochrome illustrations (which is more suitable to CoC than paintings) and a really good hardcover. Although I like very much to have it, fact is, I need to buy a standard copy to play, as there is no way to convince me to place this book in a table full of players and their crackers, soda or beer.

It is not necessary to be completely new. Chaosium gave me a great new layout and a few new illustrations in a nice package, which was enough to me.

We were laughing our heads off when we saw that "Special layout" here in germany.

It's the standard layout of the german edition...

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Ebberon 320 pages $40 (has cd rom)

It has? Damn, my copy was missing something!

Or are you referring to the music CD included with "Sharn: City of Towers"?


Forgotten Realms 320 pages $40 (has map)
Ptolus 670 pages $120 (has cd rom, map, and handouts)

Those 30 extra pages and those handouts aren't really worth the extra $40 imho.[/QUOTE]

How about the additional 350 pages of sourcebooks and adventures in PDF form, then? And that includes neither the PDF handouts nor the Campaign Journals...

While preordering nets you another $20 adventure an five $3 players guides, that makes it more interesting, but not high value. While the gimmick is that it's in one huge book, generally printing costs per page go down with a bigger book.

I'm not saying that it's a bad book, but it is overpriced when you compare it to other RPG books, $85 would have been more competative, but there is no competition in this price range so Monte can pretty much set his price.

One thing that you are forgetting is that Ptolus is not published by Wizards of the Coast. WotC can publish books in such large bulk that their books tend to be ridiculously cheap when compared to those of other publishers. That Ptolus compares well to them - and is in full color - says a lot here.

I really do want that level of detail, but not at a 50% mark up compared to the competition, because there's a lot of other great stuff out there that can be considered a complete campaign solution...

Iron Kingdoms Character Guide: Full Metal Fantasy, Vol. 1 400 pages $40
Iron Kingdoms World Guide: Full Metal Fantasy, Vol. 2 400 pages $40

I agree that these are great value for money. However, unlike Ptolus they are not in full color, which needs to be taken into account when comparing prices - printing in color is always more expensive.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

We were laughing our heads off when we saw that "Special layout" here in germany.

It's the standard layout of the german edition...

Yeah, whatever Pegasus Spiele pays their layout and graphics designer guys, it's worth it. And for a long time they have published extremely high quality CoC books while Chaosium hardly did anything.

Though recently Chaosium is getting better. I'm currently reading through "Secrets of Japan", and it is very, very good.

 

[trancejeremy]

Though recently Chaosium is getting better. I'm currently reading through "Secrets of Japan", and it is very, very good.

They actually re-did the cover of that, after people panned the first one that they displayed in a preview. (One of the funniest covers I've ever seen, which is definitely not the mood for CoC)

 

[wmasters]

It has? One thing that you are forgetting is that Ptolus is not published by Wizards of the Coast. WotC can publish books in such large bulk that their books tend to be ridiculously cheap when compared to those of other publishers. That Ptolus compares well to them - and is in full color - says a lot here.

Slightly off from the OP, but as consumer, the publisher isn't that relevant. I appreciate WoTC can charge less but it's a factor that other publishers must contend with, production costs aren't likely to be a feature in most buyers minds.

As to what would tempt me into a 'deluxe' product, Ptolus is tempting, but might be a temptation I resist. What I need from a deluxe product is:

A well known name that I trust (Monte Cook being a good example)
A complete product where I'm not then going to have to buy a load of add ons
Something I know I'll use and play and not have to do a load of work to get use out of
Being laid out well enough that I can use it easily and being attractive enough to make me want to
Being avaliable at the right time when I've got some money

Ptolus fails me on the last one, since I've been budgeting for other things.