Demi-human Gods: Greyhawk vs FR

[qstor]

I branched this thread off from "I got Races of the Wild" because it was starting to get off topic for that thread.

As other posters mentioned on that thread, Rodger Moore first started the demi-human pantheons in Dragon Magazine. They were later included in Unearthed Arcana 1e and Monster Mythology 2e. Carl Sargent included a small amount of material on the gods in his Greyhawk books such as Ivid the Undying download and the Marklands, but a few are specific to the Forgotten Realms. The gods have received more treatment in the Realms than Greyhawk thanks to Eric Boyds well written (and well worth picking up, for the fluff fan) Demihuman Deities.

Just a few comments

Mike

 

[BOZ]

one of the only times i've ever seen WoG fans envying somthing that FR fans had (besides the attention and time of TSR) was when Faiths & Avatars, and it successors Powers & Pantheons and Demihuman Deities, came out.

 

[dead]

I don't think the "generic" demi-human gods were in Gygax's original vision of GH.

It's just that after Unearthed Arcana TSR management decided every world would adopt them (GH, FR and Birthright).

Only with 2nd Edition did they become canon for GH, I think. In UA they were presented as an "option", I beleive.

 

[Psion]

The demihuman deities in the 1e DDG and UA are the one true set of deities for non-human PC races. All others are pale imitations of the real thing.

Er, that is to say, I have been using those deities for demihumans since then, and find it silly that all of the UA deities became realms exclusive deities (though it seems Races of the Wild backed off on this policy a bit. Huzzah!)

 

[Lassiviren]

I don't think the "generic" demi-human gods were in Gygax's original vision of GH.

It's just that after Unearthed Arcana TSR management decided every world would adopt them (GH, FR and Birthright).

Only with 2nd Edition did they become canon for GH, I think. In UA they were presented as an "option", I beleive.

Actually they were simply reprints from the original Dragon editorial articles. As with everything back then, it was developed specifically for Greyhawk and was subsumed into other worlds by default later on. People can quibble about the fact that they weren't worked up by Gary but in many cases he had a hand in their creation regardless.

 

[TerraDave]

The first demi-human dieties where in the 1st edition Deities and Demigods-I think all the ones in the 3rd ed PHB where first done there. I don't remember if there is a Greyhawk reference in that chapter (presumably the other pantheons, like American Indian or the Arthurian heros, where not specifically for Greyhawk...)

The status of the expanded pantheons in UA are a little unclear: Gygax did that book, and they would not have been included if he didn't want them. But does that make them greyhawk? A place to check would be something like the WOG boxed set: does it refer to the non-human dieties. Of course, the important principal is that in this era, the DMs campaign was very much his own, and he wanted these dieties in Greyhawk, or the Summarian dieties for that matter, then they where in Greyhawk.

As for the Forgotten Realms...all sorts of things have moved from "Core D&D" to being identified specifically with that setting

 

[Davelozzi]

As far as I'm concerned, the demihuman dieties from those old sources were generic and assumed to exist in any campaign world in which they weren't specifically excluded or replaced by something else. I generally assumed them to be a part of Greyhawk, the Realms, Spelljammer, and Planescape, but not Dark Sun, Mystara, or Dragonlance. Though I love Brithright, I'll confess that I can't remember who the demihumans worshiped there. I could see Moradin working, but not the Seldarine (which is also how I handle it in my homebrew, in which Moradin is the only "official" god to have a place in the campaign).

At any rate, I was annoyed by the revamping of the dwarven pantheon in Races of Stone. It seemed like they changed the names around for no good reason while not doing anything to make the new gods more interesting.

 

[BOZ]

you can always ask questions in the official Q&A thread - if you're polite, gary is usually fairly friendly and ready to answer.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

The demihuman deities in the 1e DDG and UA are the one true set of deities for non-human PC races. All others are pale imitations of the real thing.

Er, that is to say, I have been using those deities for demihumans since then, and find it silly that all of the UA deities became realms exclusive deities (though it seems Races of the Wild backed off on this policy a bit. Huzzah!)

The Manual of the Planes (3e) also mentioned several of the demihuman deities in name (they were servitors of the races' deities, but they said that DM's could expand them, making them real deities with portfolios, domains, the whole treatment). Before that, they just didn't include them becuase core D&D doesn't go into that much detail usually.

 

[diaglo]

well of course you can find Lolth in GR first. heck she was in a module before she ever made it into print in a hardback.