Demihumans, magic and worldbuilding?

[CruelSummerLord]

Quite often, I wonder about the effects of the presence of sentient nonhumans and magic in worldbuilding. Humans will, by necessity, be interacting with them, and the addition of magic makes things all the more interesting. Even more interesting to speculate on would be the impact of these things on non-European cultures; of course, we've seen the impact on European medieval civilization, but discussions of non-European settings seem to automatically assume that dwarves, elves and orcs don't exist there, which to me seems like kind of a cop-out; dwarves and elves were not widespread in much of European myth, either.

What kind of changes would there be to human cultures, depending on the presence of demihumans and magic? Here are some of my own ideas...

-With the presence of dwarves, gnomes, or indeed any race that knows how to work metal, cultures that in the real world did not have access to steel weapons and armor might well be wielding them in a fantasy setting, such as cultures patterned after North American First Nations or sub-Saharan Africa. They might trade their own products, such as furs, fruits, water, or other trade goods in exchange for metal swords, steel arrowheads, and other similar goods, just as European and Chinese traders did as late as the 19th century in real life.

These people might not wear metal armor for different reasons (cultural, discomfort in warm climate, difficult to care for metal armor in a semi-nomadic lifestyle, etc.), but weapons and shields might prove useful in dealing with hostile orcs and goblins.

-Human cultures might form alliances with demihuman races based on similar goals or mutual interests-in an Oriental warrior culture, alliances with dwarven clans might be highly sought after for the military and technological power they can offer, while elves or gnomes might be well-respected for their scientific and mathematical know-how in cultures that take an interest in astronomy and math, such as the ancient Aztecs or the medieval Arabic and Persian societies. Halflings might form a protected underclass or form an alliance with warrior human cultures, the halflings' skills in agriculture benefiting the humans in exchange for the humans offering military protection.

-Magic and metalwork can drastically alter the "balance of power" between cultures; historically, a major reason for European colonization of the world was the Europeans' technological superiority, especially when it came to firearms, and disease, which often decimated local populations. If indigenous populations can cure diseases, especially in 3E, when potions and other small magical items are assumed to be very common, and reaching 5th level seems to be much more common as well, then that puts a serious dent in the ability of diseases to weaken populations.

Similarly, would-be colonizers might be dismayed to find that their steel weapons and magical wands do not offer the advantages they thought, as contact with dwarves or elves has given the human cultures their own steel weapons and magical wands. If you also decide that gunpowder does not work, then large-scale colonization becomes much more difficult, if not impossible, because one of the biggest advantages the 19th-century European empires had, that of advanced firearms, is gone.

-The shamans or priests of certain cultures, who are already very much respected by their fellows for their supposed powers and connection to the spirit world, can become that much more powerful when clear, objective evidence of their powers can be displayed even to outsiders. Similarly, even nomadic cultures may develop alphabets and some form of literary tradition, based on the necessity of preparing spellbooks for arcane magic. Either that, or those people born as sorcerers (the 3E class, I mean) will be highly revered for their gifts and be given special status in the society.

For these reasons, I've never really understood the criticism that sometimes arises when people say that a given society/country/people are based off a real-life equivalent. One would have to be blind to assume that many of the states, countries and peopels the game's iconic settings over the years-Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance-are inspired by Europe, given the presence of kings, dukes, barons, and other European political titles. Similarly, giving the rulers and nobles of a given society titles like pasha, sultan, or beygraf implies an inspiration from the Middle Eastern Turkish/Persian/Arabic cultures of that region.

Most cultures in most D&D settings are inspired by a given real-world society; it would be absurd to deny that the Baklunish in Greyhawk, for instance, are not inspired by the Middle East. Of course, one can make any number of changes here and there, and make changes that would be unheard of in the real-life societies, so that it doesn't become an outright steal; but when you're doing that, you're adapting the Middle Eastern cultures the way guys like Gygax, Weis and Hickman, and Greenwood first adapted European cultures when building the settings in the first place. Of course many of the things that happen in their settings would never happen in real-life medieval Europe, but it's quite clear to me that they were inspired by a given real-life culture when creating a given fantasy one.

Feel free to post your thoughts, or ideas of your own.

 

[Dan Bell]

CSL,
You may be interest in reading up on HarnWorld. Harn has both dwarves and elves but their populations are waning has their races are dying out. Harn is interesting since the elder races have influenced civilization but their current impact is skewed to try to minic their realistic effects on the human populations. (for more info on HArn, see www.lythia.com )

Dan

 

[Griffith Dragonlake]

Dwarves are underestimated IMHO

While not a big fan of Dwarves, I've always thought that most campaigns and game worlds do not take Dwarves' stone and metallurgical skills into full consideration.

I maintain that Dwarves would maintain monopolies on mines and metallurgy. While they would glady trade arms, armor, worked metal, and even build stone buildings I don't think they would ever reveal their secrets. Being Lawful and conservative I think they would behave in a guild-like manner of jealously protecting their secrets. In addition, with a monopoly on mines and metallurgy I think eventually Dwarves would get into banking. Imagine if all the world's societies were dependent on the Dwarves to build their stone buildings and forge their weapons? And in turn loan out all the money they collected? The other races would have a tolerate/hate relationship with them. Some rulers might blame the Dwarves for poisoning a well and incite a riot just to justify driving them out of the kingdom so as to not pay their debts. In other words, I think there might be some parallels between Dwarves and Medieval European Jews.

I've always thought that a Chaotic civilization was an oxymoron. If Elves really are Chaotic, wouldn't they be nomadic and a hunter-gatherer kind of society? Wouldn't Wild Elves be the most common kind of Elves? I would think that by and large Elves are illiterate but have an incredible oral history. Their spellcasters would be druids and sorcerers rather than wizards and clerics. They would have a tremendous artifice with organic materials. Able to work wood, leather, and bone with inhuman artistry. They would be great weavers as well. Elven chainmail is simply metal wire acquired from Dwarves that has been woven into intricate patterns by the Elves. Even the Dwarves would have to admit their admiration for such delicate work, albeit privately. Elven music would be more like improvisational jazz rather than carefully contructed symphonies if they are true to their Chaotic nature.

My 2 farthings for now….

 

[DrunkonDuty]

I've had Dwarves in my current campaign undertake big commissions to build thing for their human neighbours. Best example: a line of defensible towers to help protect the coastline from raiders. One of the PCs is interested in architecture et. al. and trap making (for defenses) so he was all very excited about it. The other PCs went along and ran a bar for the Dwarven workers (and made a killing selling good Dwarvish beer at highly inflated prices.)
All in all it was kinda like a mini-economic invasion. And all that money just went out of the human kingdom and into Dwarven coffers. At the time I didn't run with local (human)merchants and workers being outraged by the foreign "invasion" but if something like this came up again I would.

I also figure that this human kingdom benefits from superior Dwarven made weapons that they buy at comparitively low prices. As they're vikings (actually they're the Fruztii from Greyhawk) they do appreciate good sword smiths as friends and neighbours. And the Dwarves like a good market for their metal goods. Not to mention that the ships of the Fruztii can carry goods for sale as easily as plunder. All up I see the two kingdoms having a very good relationship.

And the Fruztti are benefitting from all this to become the pre-eminent human kingdom in the area.

Of course this all very Northern European in flavour. Very deliberately so: I've gone for a strong Norse campaign, right down to borrowing stories from the Eddas.

My non-Eurocentric campaigns over the years have all been very human-centric. The Karatur games I ran all those years ago had mostly human PCs and non-humans tended to be minorities within the human cultures. So I haven't really thought about how interactions with these older, more technologically advanced (magic is also technology in this sense) non-human races has influenced other cultures. But if it comes up it will happen in much the same way as I outlined above.

And if the non-human cultures are spread evenly around the world, and are all equally advanced, then I can see that the human cultures they come in contact with will benefit from this. So I'd agree that a wave of colonisation as IRL is unlikely to succeed.

BUt there could always be colonisation after the model of the ancient Greeks and Phoenicians. Vastly superior technology and the devastation of native popualtions by disease were not factors here. But both were very successful at spreading their cultures across the Mediterranean. But the resulting colonies were very different from the colonies of the 18th-19th C western European empires. They were independent cities and free to act as they pleased. Usually good relations were maintained with the home cities but there was no centralised governmental mechanism. Nor did the colonies dominate local populaces (at least not immediately or to the extent that happened in modern times.)

Oops, work calls. Maybe finish this waffle next time.

 

[CruelSummerLord]

Griffith: Interesting that you see a parallel between the dwarves and the medieval Jews. I myself envisioned a relationship with North American First Nations/Inuit cultures akin to the fur trade that continued in North America for centuries until the mid-to-late 19th century-the Natives traded furs and other goods, which fetched high prices in Europe, for metal trade goods, such as pots and guns, and liquor. If part of your setting has cultures patterned after the First Nations, they could trade with the dwarves in a similar way, trading things like water and vegetables (practical goods) as well as furs (which the dwarven upper classes may also prize), in return for the same things Natives got from the Europeans in real life-just substitute guns for broadswords and metal spears, and there you go. Armor might not be pratical except for large-scale battles, in which case the warriors may have suits of mail set aside for that purpose. Groups that have permanent or semi-permanent settlements would, of course, be more willing to incorporate armor, and decorate it as they see fit.

Other trade relations can be extrapolated based on, say, the exodus of the Chinese traders in the Renaissance-offering finished goods in exchange for local artifacts.

DrunkOnDuty: This Greek/Phonecian idea is a fantastic one, and a highly original spin on the conquering empire bit. It might also offer some great RPing opportunities, political intrigue, or explanation on how magical lore and other skills have become widespread, or all of the above.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

I've always thought that the most interesting impact would be the role of the highly aggressive DnD ecology.

It's why Points of Light has always made sense to me.

Cause when you have Dragons, Abberrations, and other such running around civilization goes from a dominant strategy to barely sufficient.

That's why there are so many intelligent species because they aren't competing against each other so much as the background noise.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

CSL: I can see colonies of the Elder Races acting very much along the lines of the Greek/Phoenician colonisation model. And these colonies could trade with the other races in the manner you outline for the American First Nations. Trade was in fact the major impetus for the Phoenicans at least, their colonies all began as trading posts. And I'm sure good merchants will trade whatever it is will turn a profit: whether its broadswords and chain mail or buckets and spades.

In addition, close contact (colonists with natives) will bring cross-cultural pollination. A good example is the migration of Greek gods to Italy where they syncretised with the native Italian ones. In DnD I can see that the study of wizardry could easily be passed on by the Elves to their neighbours/proteges. They are generally portayed as more open about this sort of thing than the Dwarves are about their magics. I have trouble seeing Hobbits taking a patron role, they don't seem to have any more technology than humans and are small enough to be grateful for protection from evil races. Maybe what they'd bring is the spirit of co-operation. Gnomes I shall ignore.

And of course the colonists are not the overwhelmingly dominant force. Maybe the complete opposite. There can be all sorts of native kings in the "hinterland" whom the colonists must placate regularly. And to borrow even more history: strong ties to the founding city can lead to all sorts of complications like getting embroiled in a war of someone else's making. Oh yes, lots of scope. History is the best place to plunder when looking for campaign settings.

Griffith: I agree with the Dwarves/Medieval Jews analogy. I can see many places scape goating these strange, clannish foreigners who are reputed to be very rich. Hell, scape-goating is one of the things that makes people human (Sorry, I'm very cynical). Yep, scape-goating for definite. It's never pretty, nor rational, nor fair but it most certainly is.

On a related note: I remember from years ago hearing an old radio interview with JRR Tolkien. He said that his Dwarves were based on a child's idea of Jewish people.

cheers all.

 

[Griffith Dragonlake]

I myself envisioned a relationship with North American First Nations/Inuit cultures akin to the fur trade that continued in North America for centuries until the mid-to-late 19th century-the Natives traded furs and other goods, which fetched high prices in Europe, for metal trade goods, such as pots and guns, and liquor. If part of your setting has cultures patterned after the First Nations, they could trade with the dwarves in a similar way, trading things like water and vegetables (practical goods) as well as furs (which the dwarven upper classes may also prize), in return for the same things Natives got from the Europeans in real life-just substitute guns for broadswords and metal spears, and there you go. Armor might not be pratical except for large-scale battles, in which case the warriors may have suits of mail set aside for that purpose. Groups that have permanent or semi-permanent settlements would, of course, be more willing to incorporate armor, and decorate it as they see fit.

I definitely see D&D Elves as being akin to the First Nations, especially the woodland nations, e.g. Cree, Mohawk, Huron, et cetera. And I agree that the Dwarves probably provisioned them with metal goods who in turn provided the Dwarves with furs. But I also think that Elves would create fantastic works of art (see my previous post) created from scrimshaw, wood, etc. Also excellent weavers. Perhaps some enterprising Humans got a trade going and maybe that explains the Halfelves? In fact, I would wager that it was the Humans who established trade between all the non-Humans. Perhaps the Elves also fill the cultural and historical niche that the Sami play in Scandinavia? And maybe even the Cruithni in Britain.

And if Elves play the role of First Nations, would they not play the role of pre-Columbian civilisations? And by extension, would not halfelves play the role of the mestizo?

But what of the Orcs? Would they not play the role of vikings? Or are they a race that sells its brothers and sisters into slavery? One where half-orcs become house slaves while their full-blooded cousins work the fields?

And of course I have to plug my Hippokentaurs — medium-size centaurs who fill the cultural and historical niche of the steppe nomads. I figure that Atilla and Genghis were Half-Fiend/Half-Hippokentaurs.

 

[Tonguez]

And of course the colonists are not the overwhelmingly dominant force. Maybe the complete opposite. There can be all sorts of native kings in the "hinterland" whom the colonists must placate regularly. And to borrow even more history: strong ties to the founding city can lead to all sorts of complications like getting embroiled in a war of someone else's making. Oh yes, lots of scope. History is the best place to plunder when looking for campaign settings.

The British Establishment in India as faciliated by the British East India Company had two civilisations (The Moghul and British Empires) coming together first on the basis of trade and eventually in conflict. So a clan of dwarfs sets up trade centers in human lands, including establishment of its own security forces (because they are dwarfs and thus instinctively militant). They are the only licenced conduit for metal items from the Dwarf Kingdom to the humans and so grow wealthy. The Humans get upset and try and expel the dwarfs who respond with military force ...


On a real world note

In the early 1800's a Maori (New Zealand native) chief went to England and was given a suit of armour which he would occasionally wear into battle as it made him 'bullet proof'

 

[CruelSummerLord]

And if Elves play the role of First Nations, would they not play the role of pre-Columbian civilisations? And by extension, would not halfelves play the role of the mestizo?

But what of the Orcs? Would they not play the role of vikings? Or are they a race that sells its brothers and sisters into slavery? One where half-orcs become house slaves while their full-blooded cousins work the fields?

And of course I have to plug my Hippokentaurs — medium-size centaurs who fill the cultural and historical niche of the steppe nomads. I figure that Atilla and Genghis were Half-Fiend/Half-Hippokentaurs.

I admittedly don't know as much about Mesoamerican civilizations, so I can't really say, save that half-elves could easily assume similar roles to the mestizo or mulatto peoples. But this sounds very believable, and a tinkering of the historical background can easily be adopted for any setting.

By fusing this discusson with DrunkOnDuty's, it's quite possible that elven scrimshaw, crafts and weaving could replace furs in a given trading relationship, and that these influences could affect the humans' own artistic traditions, as cultures are constantly influecing one another, even when, as unfortunately happened a lot in the real world, one suppresses or oppresses the other. Similarly, humans could find their way to worshipping gods like Moradin or Corellon Larethian in this manner-after all, there's no reason demihuman churches might not be active in sending out miissionaries and preaching to other races...

As for other races, I see halflings as being especially skilled at living off the land and maximizing its resources-they're the best farmers, herders, and pastorialists out there. Grains and fruits might be traded to nomadic human peoples in exchange for protection from orcs or hobgoblins. Gnomes might offer their engineering and technical know-how, although being careful to keep it to themselves, for example making sure they have a monopoly on firearms, if you allow them in your games.

This is the kind of conversation I was hoping for-let's keep it up!