Demogorgon: Lame or Awesome?

[Taureth]

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I once might have agreed ol' Demogor was the very quintessence of D&D evil. Now, I'm not certain whether those pictures make me want to laugh hysterically, cry or do both.

 

[M.L. Martin]

Demogorgon isn't one of my favorites (although there's some interesting potential in the Immortal Set version of him), but D&D's demon lords and archdevils really don't resonate with me that much. I blame overexposure in the 3.5/Paizo era, in part.

He's better than an divinized scribal error has any right to be, though , and at least he's not horribly inaccurate like D&D's Asmodeus.

The MM2 cover reminds me of Beast Man; I don't have a problem with that, but given who Hasbro's biggest competition is . . .

 

[Starsunder]

Sorry, somehow missed this question the first time around.

I've seen an early version of the stats (that have likely since changed), as part of a bunch of files I got as background for [PROJECT NAME CENSORED]. But I had nothing to do with writing it in any way, shape, or form.

Project name censored huh?! Grrrr....lol.

By the way, since he's been mentioned a few times throughout the thread, im curious as to what level and role you'd place Anthraxus at? And do you think we'll ever see him officially stated in 4th Ed.?

 

[Mouseferatu]

Project name censored huh?! Grrrr....lol.

By the way, since he's been mentioned a few times throughout the thread, im curious as to what level and role you'd place Anthraxus at? And do you think we'll ever see him officially stated in 4th Ed.?

Well, on a purely personal basis--this is just what I'd do, not any sort of "official statement"--I'd probably make him a level 33 or level 34 solo controller. That is, just barely below the level of the weakest gods we've seen, and with powers that are a little more subtle and, well, controllery than what we've seen from Orcus and his ilk so far.

As to the likelihood of seeing him again... As much as I'd dearly love to, and have actually suggested a few different ways of reintroducing him for the 4E mythos and cosmology, so far it doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon, if at all.

 

[Starsunder]

Well, on a purely personal basis--this is just what I'd do, not any sort of "official statement"--I'd probably make him a level 33 or level 34 solo controller. That is, just barely below the level of the weakest gods we've seen, and with powers that are a little more subtle and, well, controllery than what we've seen from Orcus and his ilk so far.

As to the likelihood of seeing him again... As much as I'd dearly love to, and have actually suggested a few different ways of reintroducing him for the 4E mythos and cosmology, so far it doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon, if at all.

Dude, that sucks. Hopefully, someone from WotC has taken your ideas to heart and we'll see him introduced into 4E someday....hope springs eternal, right?

And yes, im officially jealous of your super secret book info...

And while your here (so to speak lol), I wanted to praise you on your Bane article. Really really awesome stuff; if WotC was smart, they'd put you on some more of those articles (with stats next time!!!!).

 

[Nymrohd]

For some reason I think he means the Planes Below. I mean that would fit.

 

[Starsunder]

For some reason I think he means the Planes Below. I mean that would fit.

Methinks that as well.

Of course, we're probably wrong and he's laughing at us from in front of his monitor right now

 

[Runestar]

And I have a new favorite image of demogorgon. Same slimy, emaciated, alien-looking physique as the BoVD picture, but they put back the mandril heads. Very awesome.

And the funny thing is that it appeared as a random picture in dungeonscape. The article in question didn't even have anything to do with demogorgon.

 

[Greg K]

I too prefer Demogorgon serpentine, slimy, and hideous, but the mandrill headed version feels a lot more evocative than yet another hyena demon. The image below hits the right notes for me, and is probably my second favorite picture of Demogorgon after the AD&D depiction:

To each their own. I don't care for it (yet, it is still, imo, better than the MM2 cover).

 

[James Jacobs]

BTW, James, since you're here and since it's somewhat relevant...

Whose initial idea were the Obyrith? I don't mean specifics, I mean the basic concept of using FCI to detail a more alien form of precursor demon? Was that something you and/or Erik came up with and pitched, or was that something Ed asked you to do?

Not that it matters, I'm just curious.

I was the primary architect of the obyriths, but I based them very heavily on concepts Erik had already explored in Green Ronin's "Armies of the Abyss" with the qlippoth. I would have actually embraced the qlippoth in FC1 if I were able, since they've got a real-world mythological origin, but that wasn't an option. So instead I decided to turn up the Lovecraft and reinvent the qlippoth as obyriths, and in the end, I actually prefer the obyriths (it all comes down to the Form of Madness trait versus the Fascinate trait between the two for me), but both are pretty much the same concept and can be used interchangeably in a home game, I think.

The loumaras were more solidly of my own invention (although I only used real-world evil spirit myths for the actual individual loumaras, like the dybbuk and the guecubu and the manitou—there was also going to be a horla as well, based on the ghostly monster in Guy de Maupassant's short story of the same name). These were invented to give the demons a For Real race of demonic possessors, and the name was based off of the French word "loumerottes" (which I learned from Ethan Ham's excellent Dragon article from issue #158: "Also Known As... The Orc."), which in that article was listed as an alternate name for a will-o'wisp. I had to fight a little to keep the name "loumara" actually, since some folk at WotC thought the name was too "frilly" for a race of demons... thankfully, they let me keep the name, because it really works quite well.

An early draft of FC1 actually had yet another race of demons; a race of Abyssal constructs built from the cast-off body parts of dead demons and bits of raw Abyssal power. These guys got cut pretty early, alas, before they even had a name, due to space constraints.

Ed and the folk at WotC were actually really REALLY easy to work with on this book; they pretty much let Erik and I write whatever we wanted after giving us only a pretty bare outline of what they thought might be cool for the book. Good times!