Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Artifact or Magic Item?

[Jon Davidson]

If you're talking about the original Demonimicon, unfortunately, no. It was just a brief collection of some spells. It wasn't fleshed out enough, and I even tried to get the DMs to let me do that, and they wouldn't let me mess with it. It's really meant for a campaign that is heavily themed with characters dealing with trouble with the Netherworld, to control/summons demons. Otherwise, it's not really that usable, especially not by good characters!

 

[RealAlHazred]

A source for some cool rituals?

Yeah, that's what I ended up doing, using it to introduce a few new rituals and encourage the use of the Summon Demon ritual from Complete Divine.

You do realize you replied to a 4-year-old post, right...

 

[Garthanos]

Yeah, that's what I ended up doing, using it to introduce a few new rituals and encourage the use of the Summon Demon ritual from Complete Divine.

You do realize you replied to a 4-year-old post, right...

I think a bit of necromancy/resurrection is acceptable now and then... , I have been working on martial practices that the designers abandoned immediately after it went to the printing press so...

 

[CapnZapp]

Edit: never mind, this was for 4th edition.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Well, the "Why?" is because that is explicitly what artifacts are in 4E. One of the neat little modifications made in 4E, to my mind, was the removal of the naff definition of artifacts as "level 10 spells, but for magic items". 4E has a simple, functional and most importantly useful definition of an artifact as an item tied into the game world, the background and the game situation rather than a player resource for character expansion (possibly earned through adventure).

This makes so much more sense than the "same as magic items, but uber" non-definition that we had earlier that I find myself just facepalming that it's being regressed (and that the regression started with Essentials, in point of fact)...

So, my answer to your second point - there is no such thing as a "minor" artifact. An item with magical or special powers in 4E is either a levelled magic item, designed and intended by the DM as a player group resource, or is a unique and DM-controlled entity that is designed to fulfill some specific role in the game situation being played out, and/or to relate to the game world in a specific way. The latter is an artifact - regardless of its "power level", which is pretty much incidental, in any case (as it's not a character power-up under player control).

Edit: sorry to pick on you - it's not meant as criticism since many seem to have misread 4E the same way, including the designers of Essentials! I'm just bummed at what seemed like a really good idea that has been left to wither on the vine...

At the risk of further necromancy...

I highly agree with this. 4e's whole concept of 'artifact' is not so much 'item of unfathomable power', but more like 'story driving item' which in most cases is actually a CHARACTER of its own (an NPC effectively). They're NOT TREASURE in 4e! In other words artifacts do not occupy treasure parcels. They are simply story drivers. They DO give their users a boost, and are intended to give the using character some 'spotlight', but they should only exist for one short story arc and then 'move on'.

As such, the Demonomicon is a fine candidate to be an artifact. I'd note that, while DMG2 provides a fairly complete 'structure' or 'template' for an artifact, it isn't meant to be a straight jacket. Each artifact should define how it acts, its goals, and what effects its concordance, but otherwise there's no real strict rules. The Demonomicon could be a tome implement, it could grant powers, it could contain rituals, it could have properties that help the user to deal with demons, etc. Obviously its a somewhat less than 'savory' object, but that's also interesting!

 

[RealAlHazred]

There are a few quibbles with the Demonomicon as an artifact. One is tier -- every artifact is designed for one tier of play: Heroic (level 1-10), Paragon (level 11-20), and Epic (level 21-30). Which tier is appropriate for the Demonomicon? Usually placement has to do with the tier of adventure the artifact is designed to accommodate. The deck of many things was a Paragon-tier artifact when it was introduced in Dungeon #177, but the adventure Madness at Gardmore Abbey (which features it) is a Heroic-tier module, so they had to change it to fit.

Next, what is the goal of the tome? What is its purpose in the world. It might be as simple as "get back to Iggwilv's possession," but that seems too easy. The players might never find out what the goal of the artifact is, but the DM should definitely know. For what purpose are we positing the Demonomicon as an artifact?

Only when you've figured those out can you stat it out as an artifact.

 

[pemerton]

4e's whole concept of 'artifact' is not so much 'item of unfathomable power', but more like 'story driving item' which in most cases is actually a CHARACTER of its own (an NPC effectively). They're NOT TREASURE in 4e! In other words artifacts do not occupy treasure parcels. They are simply story drivers. They DO give their users a boost, and are intended to give the using character some 'spotlight', but they should only exist for one short story arc and then 'move on'.

I've tended to use them a bit differently - counting them as part of treasure parcels, but also not having them always move on. This could be because the first one I used is the Rod of Seven Parts, which is a whole-of-campaign thing.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I've tended to use them a bit differently - counting them as part of treasure parcels, but also not having them always move on. This could be because the first one I used is the Rod of Seven Parts, which is a whole-of-campaign thing.

The Rod is sort of a weird case, I have to agree. Instead of leaving, it just GROWS. You could extend THAT model to other artifacts as well. I just kind of like the whole ouvre of the world full of this mysterious magical agency which manifests itself in these ancient relics. They come and go, on their mysterious journeys through time.

 

[pemerton]

The Rod is sort of a weird case, I have to agree. Instead of leaving, it just GROWS. You could extend THAT model to other artifacts as well.

I did so with Whelm (which also grew, literally, being reforged first as a mordenkrad and then as an oversized mordenkrad for an Eternal Defender). And also the Sword of Kas, I think.

 

[CapnZapp]

Again I have Demonomicon stats, but for 5E.