Dervish Dance, Spring Attack, Tumble, and AoOs

[Tyrol]

Alright, say there is a Dervish PC (PrC from Complete Warrior pg. 26), and she is using Dervish Dance (Let's say Char Level 11, Dervish level 6). How would a round of combat play out (vs a single opponent with combat reflexes and a dex mod of 5), while trying to minimize attacks of opportunity to the Dervish?

Dervish Dance (Ex): A dervish can become a whirling dancer of death a certain number of times per day. While in this dervish dance, she can take a full attack action (for melee attacks only) and still move up to her speed. However, the dervish must move a minimum of 5 feet between each attack when using this ability, and she cannot return to a square she just exited (though she may return to that square later during her full attack). The dervish is subject to attacks of opportunity while dancing, but may tumble normally as part of her move. A dervish prevented from completing her move is also prevented from finishing her full attack.

The Dervish also has the Spring Attack feat (from the 3.5 PHB pg 100), as a class feature at Dervish level 3.

SPRING ATTACK [GENERAL] (Char level 8; Dervish3:Class Feature)
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can’t use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor.
You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack.
Special: A fighter may select Spring Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Assuming the dervish has a Tumble check modifier of +15 combined with the class feature of Movement Mastery, she can automatically make tumble checks of DC 25. (Basicly assume no tumble failures).

Movement Mastery (Ex): A dervish is so certain of her movements that she is unaffected by adverse conditions. When making a Jump, Perform(Dance), or Tumble check, she may take 10 even if stress and distraction would normally prevent her from doing so.

1) Given all this, I repeat my original question: How would a round of combat play out (vs a single opponent with combat reflexes and a dex mod of 5), while trying to minimize attacks of opportunity to the Dervish?

A) I'm under the impression that Spring Attack is *not* applicable here. I *believe* the 'attack action' described in Spring Attack is a standard action, not a single attack as part of a full round attack, and not as an attack made as part of a Dervish Dance. Additionally, the Dervish Dance states that the dervish is subject to attacks of opportunity during the dance. Am I correct here? (Likely Irrelevant Note: Dervish Dance is a Level 1 Dervish class feature, while Spring Attack comes at Level 3 of Dervish, making one wonder if it was designed to help during a Dervish Dance?)

B) Can the Dervish tumble in between *each* attack she makes during a Dervish Dance? or only once per round?

2) Assuming the Dervish has 5 attacks and 40 ft movement (three main-hand, two off-hand), and starts adjacent to the single opponent mentioned before, is the best possible scenario that she is subject to THREE attacks of opportunity?
She makes 1 attack, then tumbles once as part of a 5 foot movement, makes a 2nd attack, takes a 5 foot move and suffers AoO1, 3rd attack, 5 foot move and suffers AoO2, 4th attack, 5 foot move and suffers AoO3, 5th attack. Is that right?

Thanks in advance.

Tyrol

 

[Hypersmurf]

A) I'm under the impression that Spring Attack is *not* applicable here. I *believe* the 'attack action' described in Spring Attack is a standard action, not a single attack as part of a full round attack, and not as an attack made as part of a Dervish Dance.

Right.

B) Can the Dervish tumble in between *each* attack she makes during a Dervish Dance? or only once per round?

Between each is fine, as long as you consider the dance 'normal movement - and since the Dance specifically states you can tumble normally, that's fairly probable

2) Assuming the Dervish has 5 attacks and 40 ft movement (three main-hand, two off-hand), and starts adjacent to the single opponent mentioned before, is the best possible scenario that she is subject to THREE attacks of opportunity?

No.

"Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent."

-Hyp.

 

[Tyrol]

"Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent."

-Hyp.

Thanks Hyp I wasn't quite sure where that quote was from, but sure enough found it under 'Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity' in the combat section of the SRD.

Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.

I had read the sentence before the sentence you cited, and I figured the dervish would provoke an AoO for each move. I must have missed that next line.

Even if she did provoke an AoO each time, being able to tumble as a part of each 5 foot movement essentially avoids all AoOs anyway (with a high enough tumble skill plus the 'take 10' of movement mastery).

Thanks again,

Tyrol

 

[Hypersmurf]

Even if she did provoke an AoO each time, being able to tumble as a part of each 5 foot movement essentially avoids all AoOs anyway (with a high enough tumble skill plus the 'take 10' of movement mastery).

In theory.

Don't forget the modifiers for multiple opponents, poor lighting, bad footing, etc, etc...

-Hyp.

 

[Tyrol]

Indeed.

Another thing I noticed is that for each 5 foot tumble, she'd be expending 10 feet of movement. The example I cited above would work out ok (four 5 foot tumbles = 40 ft), but at level 12 the Dervish might take Greater Two Weapon Fighting and get a 6th attack. She'd still only have 40 ft movement, so if she wanted to get all of her attacks in during a round of dance she'd have to expose herself to an AoO or two.

Of course, she has Mobility (+4), Dodge (+1 vs one target), Elaborate Parry + Fighting Defensively + Tumble (-4 atk, +7 dodge bonus), and Combat Expertise if she needs it as well.

Er, wait, would Combat Expertise overwrite the -4, +2 Fighting Defensively (when taking a full attack action). Reason I ask is that the Combat Expertise feat reads:

COMBAT EXPERTISE [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Int 13.
Benefit: When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of as much as –5 on your attack roll and add the same number (+5 or less) as a dodge bonus to your Armor Class. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The changes to attack rolls and Armor Class last until your next action.
Normal: A character without the Combat Expertise feat can fight defensively while using the attack or full attack action to take a –4 penalty on attack rolls and gain a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class.
Special: A fighter may select Combat Expertise as one of his fighter bonus feats.

The whole normal part (bolded) is what I'm looking at. Does this mean that using Combat Expertise replaces Fighting Defensively (as part of a full round attack action) for those that have it?

What about Tumble, which says:

Special: If you have 5 or more ranks in Tumble, you gain a +3 dodge bonus to AC when fighting defensively instead of the usual +2 dodge bonus to AC.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Tumble, you gain a +6 dodge bonus to AC when executing the total defense standard action instead of the usual +4 dodge bonus to AC.

And Elaborate Parry

Elaborate Parry(Ex): When she attains 7th level, a dervish gains an extra +4 bonus to Armor Class when she chooses to fight Defensively or use all-out defense in melee combat.

Elaborate Parry specifically says extra, so I'm confident it would stack with the +1 bonus from 5 ranks of Tumble. My question is:
Could she use Combat Expertise combined with the Tumble bonus and Elaborate Parry bonus (Combat Expertise overwriting standard -4 atk, +2 AC of fighting defensively)?

1) Combat Expertise(up to -5 atk, +5 AC) + Tumble (+1 AC) + Elaborate Parry (+4 AC) = up to -5 atk, +10 AC

or would her options be:
2)
A) Combat Expertise: up to -5 atk, +5 AC
OR
B) Fight Defensively: -4 atk, +7 AC (+1 from Tumble, +4 from Elaborate Parry)

Obviously, Combat Expertise would become useless if it were the latter, as the choice between A and B isn't much of a choice. B is obviously far more advantageous than A.

Edit: Thought of another possibility, though doubt it would work this way.
3) Combat Expertise stacks with Fighting Defensively, providing up to -9 atk, +12 AC (or some range of atk from -4 to -9, respectively giving +7 to +12 AC)

Anyone got an answer to this?

Tyrol

 

[Darklone]

Yeah, you can use all at once.

 

[Tyrol]

Yeah, you can use all at once.

Ahh, cool. Thanks Darklone.

Hmm, then that means if the dervish fought defensively combined with mobility and dodge, she'd have a -4 atk and +12 AC vs AoOs, which could be raised to -9 atk, and +17 AC vs AoOs through Combat Expertise if the dervish chose. And against standard attacks by a single opponent (non-AoOs), that would be +13 AC (or +8 without CE).

Good stuff.

Tyrol

 

[Darklone]

Yeah. The Dervish needs all the AC he/she gets.

 

[sledged]

Yeah. The Dervish needs all the AC he/she gets.

However, Karmic Strike and Double Hit (MiniHB) help ensure the dervish dishes out better than what she gets.

 

[Shallown]

Also I think Elusive target (I think thatis the name of it) A tactical feat in Complete Warrior would add to the nastiness becuase you can make a Trip attempt when someone misses you do to an AofO triggered by movement. So if your AC is high enough you may choose not to tumble to draw the AofO and then trip them. I think it is called over reach or over step.

It has some other nice synergies with the dervish abilities if I rmember correctly.


Later