Dervish Dance

[KerlanRayne]

If a character uses either Pounce (per the MM) or Shadow Pounce (as in Telflammer Shadowlord or Crinti Shadow Marauder) during a Dervish Dance, what would happen?

1) The PC would be able to move during all of these full attacks.
2) The PC can only make 1 attack because they can't move between attacks.
3) The PC gets all attacks but can't move between them.

I am interested in both RAW and personal opinions. Thank You.

KerlanRayne

 

[Caliban]

I'd say that Pounce cannot be combined with the Dervish Dance.

Pounce requires you use the Charge action, and then allows you to use the Full Attack action at the end of the charge.

Charge requires you to stop your movement when you make your attack.

Dervish Dance requires you to use the Full Attack Action, and requires you to move after each attack.

Basically, it would work like a normal pounce - the Dervish Dance doesn't allow you to overcome the movement limitations of the Charge action, only the Full Attack action.

 

[Darklone]

Second the monkey.

 

[Michaluk]

The relevant line from the PHB preventing these two abilities from working in conjunction is "You must move before your attack, not after" from page 154.

However, if that line is taken to mean you must move then attack, rather than attacking then moving on a standard charge, I think it's reasonable (if the DM doesnt mind your dervish being more ridiculous than he already is) for the rules to be relaxed a little. Reading through the relevant abilities:

Charge - "Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action"

Pounce - "When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can follow with a full attack..."

Dervish Dance - "While in this dervish dance, she can take a full attack action and still move up to her speed"

Other than the "move before" restriction, I don't see why all these abilities can't be used together as long as you adhere to the movement rules. Keep in mind when doing this though that your total movement for the turn is limited by the dervish dance to your speed (including the movement from charging).

Also, I think using them in conjunction is keeping in the spirit of what the dervish dance is all about. Its perfectly acceptable for a dervish with 60 speed to move 40 feet to an enemy and procede to take his full attack using his remaining 20 feet of movement. All you're doing here is turning that first 40 feet into a charge.

If you convince your DM to allow you to do this, add in Leap Attack for even more fun.

 

[Caliban]

The relevant line from the PHB preventing these two abilities from working in conjunction is "You must move before your attack, not after" from page 154.

However, if that line is taken to mean you must move then attack, rather than attacking then moving on a standard charge, I think it's reasonable (if the DM doesnt mind your dervish being more ridiculous than he already is) for the rules to be relaxed a little.

I personally don't think it's reasonable. I play a dervish, they really don't need any help.

 

[KerlanRayne]

What about how it interacts with Shadow Pounce? It doesn't require or prohibit any movement.

KerlanRayne

 

[KerlanRayne]

Bump

 

[Caliban]

Sorry, not familiar with Shadow Pounce.

 

[Sound of Azure]

What about how it interacts with Shadow Pounce? It doesn't require or prohibit any movement.

KerlanRayne

Since you're using a teleportation effect when using the Shadow Pounce ability of the Teflammar Shadowlord, I don't think it qualifies for the dervish dance bonuses. Besides, shadow pounce operates by allowing a full attack at the end of the teleport/move (same as normal Pounce), while dervish dance allows a full attack while your character moves.

This is the difference that makes both Pounce and Shadow pounce unusable with a Dervish's dervish dance. However, both give a dervish additional options in combat, especially if they have no dances remaining for the day.

Sorry I can't give you a positive response, but as Caliban said, the Dervish is plenty strong on its own, and the Teflammar Shadowlord is no slouch either.

 

[KerlanRayne]

Since you're using a teleportation effect when using the Shadow Pounce ability of the Teflammar Shadowlord, I don't think it qualifies for the dervish dance bonuses. Besides, shadow pounce operates by allowing a full attack at the end of the teleport/move (same as normal Pounce), while dervish dance allows a full attack while your character moves.

Actually it's the other way around. It lets you move whenever you make a full attack. It's a subtle but important difference.
My biggest concern is which of the three options would apply in each of the two situations. It seems that Caliban and Darlone are for #3 to both, Michaluk is for #1 to both, and Sound of Azure didn't pick one. I can handle #1 and #3, either one is fine. I don't like #2 though.

KerlanRayne