Dervish with Whirlwind Attack feat

[Felix]

I'd say no, cannot combine.

WHIRLWIND ATTACK
"When you use the FULL ATTACK ACTION, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make ONE MELEE ATTACK at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach."

Whirlwind Attack is a full attack action, which you are allowed to make when performing a dervish dance. Whirlwind is also described as ONE melee attack that you make against all targets within reach, so the notion of taking at least a 5 ft step between attacks is irrelevant because in essence you are only making one attack.

Or is it...

"One attack... against each opponent." Which would mean more than one attack, as long as there are more than one opponents, so the notion of not moving more than 5 feet does become important.

And given the required feats for this class (dodge, combat expertise), plus the fact that you are given Spring Attack (yet another prerequisite for Whirlwind) as you progress through the levels of Dervish, it seems to me that if you take this class you are purposefully being led toward taking Whirlwind Attack.

Sure, you are being led there. And Whirlwind Attack fits with the flavor of the class. By all means, take the feat. It's just as useful as when you take it otherwise. But that doesn't mean that it must combine with the other class features.

At a 30' move, that's 6 attacks- powerful, but with WWA (and no dervish levels) you could get up to 8 (with a normal melee weapon), so I don't know that it's going to be a huge problem - you're basically investing several feats and several levels into the ability to do this.

7 attacks, actually. You don't have to move before attacking, and you can attack one more time after you've used your last 5' step. Looks like this:
ATTACK-5-ATTACK-5-ATTACK-5-ATTACK-5-ATTACK-5-ATTACK-5-ATTACK

As far as investing lots of feats and levels, well, that investment gets you other nifty abilities that are the payoff. Allowing WWA to stack with the investment return will further enhance the power of the class and bring it closer to unbalancing.

WWA give you your full attack bonus against all foes next to you. The problem comes when combining the two gives you your full attack bonus against foes that were not next to you, and therefore likely hadn't gotten the opportunity to hurt you. One of the big problems with WWA is that you have to be mobbed for it to help. Combining WWA and DD removes the issue of being mobbed, and makes WWA that much more powerful.

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And from a completely non-RAW standpoint, I think allowing them to stack voilates the flavor of the manaeuver these abilities are meant to represent:

Whirlwind Attack is meant to be a stationary, circular, don't-come-near-me, spinning blade of death. It's meant to fight against being surrounded.

Dervish Dance evokes a fluid style of fighting that makes use more of movement than anything else. It's moving through the battlefield, not fending people off from yourself.

Yes, they're both dance-like actions. They're both pretty cool. I think most Dervishes would have WWA, if only because they'll naturally meet the prereqs. But I think their uses are so different that they shouldn't combine.

 

[ConspiracyAngel]

Good idea! Scout 7/Dervish X or Scout 2/Fighter 4/Dervish X seem to be good combos.

How about Barbarian 2/Cleric (Celerity Domain) 2/Fighter 2/Dervish X?

 

[Shin Okada]

How about Barbarian 2/Cleric (Celerity Domain) 2/Fighter 2/Dervish X?

Regarding fast movement, I have re-checked Complete Divine and Complete Adventurer.

Fast, both Scout and Dervish give enhancement bonus to the base speed. So as monks. Those bonuses do not stack to each other.

Barbarian class and Celerity Domain seem to grant nameless bonus. But both of them say "faster than the normal for your race by +10 speed" or simular thing. So I am not sure if Barbarian 2/Cleric (Celerity)2 has speed of normal +10 +10 or just normal +10.

 

[RigaMortus]

I thought you only get one full round action (attack) per round? And since WWA is one full round to accomplish, and dervish dance is one full round to accomplish... well that is 1 too many full round actions...

If this were these case, couldn't you Charge and make multiple irrative attacks? Both require full round actions to perform, and if you are allowing multiple full round actions in the above example, why not here too?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I thought you only get one full round action (attack) per round? And since WWA is one full round to accomplish, and dervish dance is one full round to accomplish... well that is 1 too many full round actions...

If this were these case, couldn't you Charge and make multiple irrative attacks? Both require full round actions to perform, and if you are allowing multiple full round actions in the above example, why not here too?

Dervish Dance is not an action at all. It's an ability that lasts a certain number of rounds.

While Dancing, you can take a full attack action and move in the same round. Whirlwind Attack is something you can do if you take the full attack action. So while Dancing, you can make a Whirlwind Attack by taking the full attack action, and move in the same round.

You can't Charge and make multiple attacks, because charging requires the Charge action, and making multiple attacks requires the Full Attack action, and neither action allows the other.

... unless you have the Pounce ability, which states that when you Charge, you may also make a Full Attack.

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

Dervish Dance is not an action at all. It's an ability that lasts a certain number of rounds.

While Dancing, you can take a full attack action and move in the same round. Whirlwind Attack is something you can do if you take the full attack action. So while Dancing, you can make a Whirlwind Attack by taking the full attack action, and move in the same round.

You can't Charge and make multiple attacks, because charging requires the Charge action, and making multiple attacks requires the Full Attack action, and neither action allows the other.

... unless you have the Pounce ability, which states that when you Charge, you may also make a Full Attack.

-Hyp.

That reminds me. If you make a pounce, do you get a +2 on the first attack roll only, or on all attacks?

 

[Staffan]

I'm not certain if I'd rule that they work together, but if I did I'd rule that you still only get one attack per opponent. So you couldn't whirlwind someone, move, whirlwind the same opponent, move, whirlwind him again, move, and so on. If you want to make multiple attacks on one opponent, you need to use your normal iterative attacks.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That reminds me. If you make a pounce, do you get a +2 on the first attack roll only, or on all attacks?

Well, strictly as written...

"Pounce (Ex): When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can follow with a full attack."

A charge is movement and a single melee attack.

So after you move and make a single melee attack (at +2, for charging), Pounce, as written, allows you to follow with a full attack.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm not certain if I'd rule that they work together, but if I did I'd rule that you still only get one attack per opponent.

Oh, absolutely. That's what Whirlwind Attack says.

-Hyp.

 

[Legildur]

Dervish Dance is not an action at all. It's an ability that lasts a certain number of rounds.

While Dancing, you can take a full attack action and move in the same round. Whirlwind Attack is something you can do if you take the full attack action. So while Dancing, you can make a Whirlwind Attack by taking the full attack action, and move in the same round.

Hyp,

Would you please illustrate with an example of how you think a Whirlwind Attack during a Dervish Dance actually works? That would clear it up for me.