Dervish with Whirlwind Attack feat

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Hyp,

Would you please illustrate with an example of how you think a Whirlwind Attack during a Dervish Dance actually works? That would clear it up for me.

I'm not Hyp, but I'll do it.

There's a Dervish standing at the base of a "gauntlet." This gauntlet is made up of a group of 12 warriors on each side, standing shoulder to shoulder, with 15 feet of space in between them. The Dervish currently threatens the last two warriors on each side.

A poor illustration, where W is a warrior, - is an empty square, D is the Dervish, and X is a threatened square:

W---W
W---W
W---W
W---W
W---W
W---W
W---W
W---W
W---W
W---W
W---W
WXXXW
X---X
X-D-X
X---X
XXXX


The dervish elects to make a Full Attack, and employ both Whirlwind Attack (1 attack per threatened opponents) and Dervish Dance (may move 5' in between each hit during a Full Attack).

The Dervish begins by attacking the warrior on the left. He then takes a five foot step forward (bringing the next line of warriors into threatened range). He now threatens 4 warriors, one of whom he has already hit - he has three valid targets.

He strikes a warrior ahead and to his right, and takes another five foot step forward.

A poor illustration, where W is a warrior, - is an empty square, D is the Dervish, X is a threatened square, T is a warrior who's already been hit:

W---W
W---W
W---W
W---W
W---W
W---W
W---W
W---W
W---W
WXXXW
W---T
T-D-W
X---X
XXXXX

He may thus proceed down the line, striking alternating sides, until he reaches the end.

At this point, he can turn around and proceed back *down* the line, striking the foes he missed the first time.

If, at any point, all targets that he threatens have already been hit once, his Whirling Dance ends.

Assuming the player plays it right, he can hit every warrior in the line with a single strike.

 

[TheEvil]

That would be something like 115' base movement. The most I have been able to trick out of it without going to far afield is 85', or 18 opponents. (+10 Barbarian, +10 Celerity Domain, +5 Sprint feat, +30 Expeditious Retreat magic item)

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

That would be something like 115' base movement. The most I have been able to trick out of it without going to far afield is 85', or 18 opponents. (+10 Barbarian, +10 Celerity Domain, +5 Sprint feat, +30 Expeditious Retreat magic item)

I decided, for the example, to not limit it to the Dervish's movement, since you can always find something faster if you need to.

 

[TheEvil]

This post had been deleted due to increased understanding on the part of the poster after a rereading of the post.

 

[Zym]

A similar thread was recently discussed over at the WotC BBS. I think the results are pretty much the same.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=358599

 

[Tyrol]

Worth mentioning is that a Dervish is very often tumbling between each attack to avoid AoOs, which uses twice as much movement (every 5' tumble is 10' of movement). This is usually a significant limiting factor when playing a more typical dervish (using scimitar, often TWF), at least from my experience.

Admittedly, I've never tried using whirlwind attack combined with dervish dance, and I've never even thought of using a slashing reach weapon. The reach weapon could mitigate AoOs enough to be unbalanced, but it's hard to say.

In support of dervish dance & whirlwind attack working together, I went looking for whether or not you could 5' step in the middle of a WW (as normal full round attack actions allow the 5' step to occur before, during, or after). I found this thread this thread that has some good points, but it does not appear to be conclusive.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

In support of dervish dance & whirlwind attack working together, I went looking for whether or not you could 5' step in the middle of a WW (as normal full round attack actions allow the 5' step to occur before, during, or after). I found this thread this thread that has some good points, but it does not appear to be conclusive.

Actually, I'd say the matter is pretty much conclusive:

Normal: Without this feat, using the Whirlwind Attack feat requires a full attack action, and the character can take a 5-foot step between any two of the attacks.

 

[pbd]

I am currently playing a ranger 1/fighter 4/ dervish 6 with WWA and have used it whilst doing the dervish dance. I ran it by the DM priot to taking the feat and his reply was "that sounds cool!" . The character has a base move of 50 currently (30 + 10 derish + 10 magic).

Anyhoo, it was not overpowering. It is useful against multiple smaller apponents (taking a second or third run to take more out), but with the limitation of 1 attack per opponent you cant really rack up the damage needed at higher level to take out the big baddies.

pbd

 

[Darthjaye]

Actually it seems that the WWA and DD work perfectly together from the WOTC forum thread. If your only gonna get one attack on each foe then it's perfect to move around and hit as many as possible. Imagine though if your 5th level dervish gets hit with haste. He now gets to hit every target he can get to within his 70 ft move. Kinda scary if you make that dervish a Scout and acquire those extra dice from the skirmish ability. Bulls Str the guy and it can get ugly. He'd also be getting a +3 to attack and damage from the dance alone. Not too bad a attack vs just a plain old WWA especially considering the fact you could potentially attack up to 14 different opponents (provoking from at least 13 of them). Better have a high AC when your doing so (of course if you took the scout/ dervish example you'd have a pretty good one combined with mobility and some decent magical light armor as well as your dodge bonuses from each class. Add Expertise to this and it gets pretty ugly fast.)

 

[mac1504]

Worth mentioning is that a Dervish is very often tumbling between each attack to avoid AoOs, which uses twice as much movement (every 5' tumble is 10' of movement). This is usually a significant limiting factor when playing a more typical dervish (using scimitar, often TWF), at least from my experience.

As far as I understand it though, you can take a -10 to your tumble check in order to move your full speed during your round (PHB p.84). At 1st level the Dervish gains Movement Mastery which allows the Dervish to automatically take 10 on Tumble checks, and by if you go with a Rogue 7/Dervish 1 with an 18 DEX (and maxed out Tumble skill) you'd have a 15 Tumble which is the DC you need to move through threatened squares without taking an AoO.

Of course, there's always that -2 modifier for every opponent you tumble past, but with a +15 in Tumble I think your chances are pretty good.