Detect Magic and Doppelgangers

[Menexenus]

SPOILER ALERT: DON'T READ THIS POST IF YOU ARE A PLAYER IN AN AGE OF WORMS CAMPAIGN.









Recently, I ran the Hall of Harsh Reflections. During the raid of the Doppelganger lair, my players cast Detect Magic in an attempt to determine who was real and who was a doppelganger. According to the rules, should the doppelganger's supernatural ability to assume another person's shape show up on a Detect Magic spell? If so, that seems really lame that a 0-level spell can totally ruin the Doppelganger's mystique. So I house-ruled that it didn't work. But, just for the record, can someone tell me whether it *should* have worked?

Thanks.

 

[shilsen]

I can't recall a place it's clearly spelled out, but I'd definitely rule the same way as you. If it's a spell-like ability, then I'd say "yes", Detect Magic would work. A Su ability is a little less magical, so to say, than an Sp ability, and works differently from a spell or Sp version of the spell (it can't be dispelled, for one), so I don't think it should show up under Detect Magic.

 

[Kurotowa]

This came up in regards to Eberron's changelings. The official ruling was that because Change Shape is an instant effect and not one with a duration, there is only a magical effect on the turn that you use the ability. After that the magic has completed its work and run its course. So Detect Magic does not work as a poor man's True Sight. It would make sense for the same ruling to apply to their parent doppelgangers and their Change Shape.

 

[frankthedm]

This came up in regards to Eberron's changelings. The official ruling was that because Change Shape is an instant effect and not one with a duration, there is only a magical effect on the turn that you use the ability. After that the magic has completed its work and run its course.

If the magic has "run its course" the effect would never end, even upon the death of the character or upon entering an antimagic feild.

So Detect Magic does not work as a poor man's True Sight.

No it is not, it does detect magic, which supernatural abilities are. Round one tells you If there is magic there, round two tells you the strongest aura, round 3 lets you pinpoint each aura. You neve see what is under the aura.

Supernatural: Supernatural abilities are magical and go away in an antimagic field but are not subject to spell resistance. Supernatural abilities cannot be dispelled. Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise. Supernatural abilities may have a use limit or be usable at will, just like spell-like abilities. However, supernatural abilities do not provoke attacks of opportunity and never require Concentration checks. Unless otherwise noted, a supernatural ability has an effective caster level equal to the creature’s Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a supernatural ability is 10 + 1/2 the creature’s HD + the creature’s ability modifier (usually Charisma).

It would make sense for the same ruling to apply to their parent doppelgangers and their Change Shape.

A bad ruling meant to be overly favorable to a PC race should not be used as a basis when the rules are clear.

 

[Felnar]

the main 3.5 FAQ covers detect magic and supernatural abilties

 

[Starglim]

A supernatural ability is neither a magic item nor a spell, which are the two categories covered in the detect magic table. It seems to me that it doesn't create a magical aura detectable by detect magic. I tend to agree with Shilsen that spell-like abilities are detectable.

 

[frankthedm]

A supernatural ability is neither a magic item nor a spell, which are the two categories covered in the detect magic table.

The first line of the spell covers supernatural abilties. The rest is grey area. The table is lacking, the text is not. It even gives the formula to discern auras that are not spells.

15 + half caster level for a nonspell effect

Detect Magic
Divination
Level: Brd 0, Clr 0, Drd 0, Sor/Wiz 0
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 60 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped emanation
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
You detect magical auras. The amount of information revealed depends on how long you study a particular area or subject.
1st Round: Presence or absence of magical auras.
2nd Round: Number of different magical auras and the power of the most potent aura.
3rd Round: The strength and location of each aura. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Spellcraft skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura; DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + half caster level for a nonspell effect.)

Magical areas, multiple types of magic, or strong local magical emanations may distort or conceal weaker auras.

Aura Strength: An aura’s power depends on a spell’s functioning spell level or an item’s caster level. If an aura falls into more than one category, detect magic indicates the stronger of the two.

————————— Aura Power —————————
Spell or Object Faint Moderate Strong Overwhelming
Functioning spell (spell level) 3rd or lower 4th–6th 7th–9th 10th+ (deity-level)
Magic item (caster level) 5th or lower 6th–11th 12th–20th 21st+ (artifact)

Lingering Aura: A magical aura lingers after its original source dissipates (in the case of a spell) or is destroyed (in the case of a magic item). If detect magic is cast and directed at such a location, the spell indicates an aura strength of dim (even weaker than a faint aura). How long the aura lingers at this dim level depends on its original power:

Original Strength Duration of Lingering Aura
Faint 1d6 rounds
Moderate 1d6 minutes
Strong 1d6x10 minutes
Overwhelming 1d6 days

Outsiders and elementals are not magical in themselves, but if they are summoned, the conjuration spell registers.

Each round, you can turn to detect magic in a new area. The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it.

Detect magic can be made permanent with a permanency spell.

 

[shilsen]

Actually, I think Frank makes a good point in favor of Detect Magic working, and in view of the FAQ agreeing with him, I'll admit that's the official rule.

That being said, I'm definitely house-ruling it in my game. Changelings, doppelgangers and rakshasas in my game are not about to be detected by Detect Magic. Nosireebob!

 

[FireLance]

Actually, my gut reaction was that supernatural abilities should show up under detect magic, but after reading the text, I'm not so sure.

Detect magic detects magical auras. Based on the description of the spell, only spells and magical items have magical auras. A supernatural ability may be magical, but I find nothing that suggests that it has a magical aura that would register with detect magic.

However, since the FAQ states that supernatural abilities can be detected as magic items, I'll go along with that.

An interesting implication of this ruling is that anywhere that a dragon with 21 or more Hit Dice has used its breath weapon will have a lingering aura for 1d6 days because it is the equivalent of an artifact-level magic item.

 

[Starglim]

An interesting implication of this ruling is that anywhere that a dragon with 21 or more Hit Dice has used its breath weapon will have a lingering aura for 1d6 days because it is the equivalent of an artifact-level magic item.

This, and the fact that outsiders and elementals don't register despite more often than not radiating powerful supernatural effects from their bodies, makes me more confident of my position.