In my last session my players defeated a group of monsters. As a DM, I like to have my intelligen monsters use magic items as it makes a lot more sense than the players finding something and thinking "wow this would have hurt us!" There were two magic items used in this particular battle.
The first magic item was a Phantom Soldier held by a Howling Hag. It was obvious that this was a magic item because I described her using a figurine in her hand just before an illusionary soldier appeared on the battlefield.
The other magic item was Boots of Stealth worn by a Bugbear Strangler. Not as obvious.
truthfully he needs armor/defense more than the boots but I feel a little bad I rolled so poorly
At the end of the battle, the party tried to detect magic so I asked for the usual Arcana check. The wizard rolled poorly, resulting in a 15 arcana check. I've been using "Sense the Presence of Magic" under Detect Magic under the Arcana skill (PHB, pg. 181), so a 15 wasn't even close to detecting magic on the items.
The party clearly had a clue that the figurine was magical, so they took that as well as the hag's quarterstaff. The Boots of Stealth were left behind. I'm feeling a little sorry about that as the rogue in the party is a little behind on magic item acquisition and he would have loved them.
Am I using the right rules for this? In previous versions of D&D, a spell could be used -- if the party chose to expend that resource -- to discover all the magic items in the area. Now they roll for a skill.
How do other parties handle this? Do they spend a number of minutes using the Arcana skill until they've rolled sufficiently high? Does the DM just let them detect the presence of magic items automatically and the "sense the presence of magic" is used for other story-related magical presences?
Considering we were worried about vacating the clearing and not getting killed by another encounter with no remaining dailies or encounter powers, it makes sense we missed something. I'm pretty sure we were all stoked to get a chance to get away from the war parties, find a remote place for a long rest and level up. While I hate knowing we left a magic item behind it makes a lot of sense with the hasty retreat we made.
sounds about right. I probably would have allowed the mage to use his passive arcana...and if they took their time (a short rest), let him get a take 20 on the arcana.
No time, the strangler(that's no joke as far as monster go) had punished both the rogue and the cleric and the hag's shrieks/howls punished us all with a couple critical hits and repeatedly out maneuvering us and getting 2-4 of us in area attacks.
No. There are no rules for detecting magic items. The Arcana skill is detect magical EFFECTS in an area, but magical items are not effects.
The game assumes you tell your players what items are magical, by their nature something is obvious that there's more then meets the eye. Then the game assumes you tell them the properties of all magic items during a short rest.
I disagree here. Even if that is the rule which I don't believe it is, it smacks of montyhaulism and would prefer to need to search for stuff. The current way we do things seems more than fair and the really painful thing about 3.5 and previous versions was identify and that's been pretty much erased.
Not so. Under the description of the Arcana skill it states that the DC for "sense the presence of magic" is 20+(1/2 the level of the magic item) and that you can detect it within a number of squares equal to 5+Lvl, ignore sources you're already aware of, ignore all barriers...
This seems to be how we're doing it and it's a little like an unlimited number of detect magics per day but with a decent mechanic for not making them automatic.
This is a great example of when, as a DM, you need to start "fudging" stuff. In most cases I would have run this exactly as you did, but since there was a real need for the Rogue to get this items (well, any really) I would have come up with a secondary way for the items to be discovered. Since such a thing isn't something you always due, the best way (in this case) would have been to just make it a gimmie so they detect the boots magic.
Truthfully I think we (zerakon's players) prefer as little fudging as possible. No one cries if we die, we're trying not to die but the constant threat of death makes the game much more exciting. When I left the PC Sunday night I was stoked that no one died, and the 3 members who were level 4 made level 5. Great encounters, high excitement, great plot lines with numerous twists.
We're clearly going to give the rogue the statue so he'll get a magic item that works well with his skills, much like the incident at the "destroy the gnoll artifact in the throbbing temple" we fled because we were crippled and perceived that we might all die, it's almost good that we failed to find something because we made a hasty exit.
Alternatively, if you knew there was an important reason for the Rogue to find something magic (if you are away of the rogue's disparity in magic items, then so is the rogue) do something a little special, like have some random note or other item somehow reference the boots. Add some spice so that it feels special for who ever finds or ends up wearing the boots. Maybe have a note from the bugbears mother asking how he liked his new boots? I don't know, I'm just spitballing here, but it does accomplish two things. It makes the boots seem special and gives them reason to give them a second look as it makes the PCs less aware (in a metagaming sense) of notes, which are typically plot devices - now, not so much...it's flavor.
Another idea I've used in the past was to have surviving weak monsters try to grab important items from a dead (and more powerful) ally's body when they make a run for it. It gives the PCs reason to chance as well draws attention to the item.
Good plot devices but we captured the only survivor, we gagged and bound him and fled the clearing so we could avoid the rest of the goblin army or gnoll war parties that are looking for us. There really isn't/wasn't much that could be done to help us find the boots with out cheese. It's not often i gaff the arcana rolls and it's better if skills sometimes let us down or else there's no point in the skill.
Disagree. I don't think this is a great example where I needed to start fudging. The Boots were a minor throw-in item -- a level 3 item and the rogue was level 5. Also, he's likely going to be the biggest beneficiary of the Phantom Soldier item that the party found, as its primary purpose is that it allows extra flanking opportunities.
Again, there wasn't a real need for the Rogue to get this item. I said in my post that I felt "a little sorry" because the Rogue was "a little behind" in magic items.
I don't think such a small thing requires fudging.
No fudging is good.
Heck, if it was important that the Rogue get the boots, I could just as easily throw Boots of Stealth into their next treasure horde. They don't know that they missed out on the Boots in this particular battle.
well i do now..
I do appreciate your advice for situations when it is important that a magic item be found, in terms of delivering it in a way that seems natural, such as your example of a lesser monster trying to grab a magic item from his fallen comrade.
Will be on the look out for that.
truthfully I've been considering fast runner since we started 4e since that orc ran away from the battle at the base of the plateau with the temple carrying scroll tubes. I like that sometimes the magic items or best treasure runs away from us. That's real life. gritty dnd, nothing for free and we need to be crafty to succeed.
Some of the other suggestions are okay too. I guess I'm surprised that 4E has such a wishy-washy way of going about this, considering the DMG has specific rules about treasure parcels so that parties get the "right amount" of magic items. It just seems inconsistent from a design standpoint. If they felt it was important that PCs get the right amount of magic items, they should have had a more surefire way to detect the items.
If it's critical to keeping the party on track or alive it can always reappear later as you said, but us losing out on a piece of treasure is just the other side of the coin for when we make a good play or get lucky and avoid the hivelord (and the slaughter that might have been). Perceiving nessa as the deceiver instead of verrimox... all part of the grey areas that make your campaigns so exciting and fulfilling.
There's nothing in the rules to support or refute it, but I tend to assume that, unless they're deliberately designed to look mundane, magic items will be recognisably more special than their mundane equivalents - whether due to quality of workmanship, special materials or runes incorporated into the design, or minor sensory effects related to their ongoing properties.
Boots of Stealth are designed to help their wearer evade notice, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily built to look inconspicuous in themselves. I'd allow a decent Perception check, or even just a statement that the PC is examining the corpse's possessions, to reveal something unique about the boots. They might be made from the hide of a beast with magical stealth abilities, or have a dedication to a deity of stealth and deception inlaid into their buckles, or maybe they just absorb the light in an unnatural way, appearing matt-black even while they feel like polished leather.
That's good flavor too. Not relevant in this particular example but in general giving other pc's some sort of perception chance to notice something about a magic item increases our success rate without making us infallible. At the end of the day it's still my position that it's ok we failed.
For stuff like noticing magic loot in an area where the players are taking a break I tend to let them quote/unquote take 11. Basically they roll and the roll bottoms out at what their passive ability is. It's not quite right, but it gives them the joy of sneaking in a roll on an active passive activity.
On that same note however, I always like to sneak in magic loot hints whenever I can. If a character had noticed the guy with the boots of stealth while he was attempting to be stealthy, I would have hopefully remembered to sneak something to the effect of a "you notice someone sneaking along the back wall trying hard to not attract any attention. He's really hard to focus on and it almost feels like your mind is trying to slide past and NOT notice him.
more nice flavor. Sadly I only noticed him when he tried to close his garrote around my neck... thankfully being eladrin gives one get out of jail free per encounter and the words bugbear strangler and choke triggered me to deem that attack worthy of my shield spell and the next round I vacated the area with my fey step. He proceeded to throttle the rogue and then the cleric. Coupled with the hag and the other bugbear and the swarm of goblins we're pretty lucky to have escaped without anyone even going below zero.
